1963 Schwinn Paramount
04-27-20, 08:13 PM
#51
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Oh I'm happy to build it up with the right parts. I enjoy the process and this one will be no exception.
I agree the decals are a bit too new, too modern looking. Same with the paint...it has that new paint sheen to it, especially around some of the frame damage.
I agree the decals are a bit too new, too modern looking. Same with the paint...it has that new paint sheen to it, especially around some of the frame damage.
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04-27-20, 08:20 PM
#52
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04-27-20, 08:36 PM
#53
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3 pages and I havent even taken it out of the car yet. I am letting it mellow and tomorrow I will wipe it down with some disinfectant after work before having a closer look.
i have some yellow label Fiamme tubulars with high flange record hubs and some vittoria corsa g+ tanwalls that have been sitting and stretching. I also have most of the nuovo record components from an old Atala but it has an Italian bb and the headset is pitted. Ideally I'd like to build this one up a bit more period correct and a bit closer to catalogue. Gran sport or record rear derailleur, stronglight competition or nuovo record crank, record front derailleur, suntour or campagnolo bar ends , 27.2 campagnolo seatpost, gran sport headset, brooks pro or b17 and weinmann 999 or if period universal brake levers with mod 61 centerpulls. Or stay with the mafacs but i have a px-10 with them already. I wouldn't mind the maes bar and titan stem but $$$. It has a top tube 1cm longer than usually ride so I will likely end up with a 80mm or so stem.
Essentially I still need to find saddle, seatpost, rd, crank and bb if not nuovo record, headset, brakes, campag bar ends if not suntour, and bar/stem. I have an old unicanitor saddle I could try but it is fairly well used and I've never sat on one.
Other option is to throw an ultegra r8000 group on there with some 60mm carbon rims and call it a day.
i have some yellow label Fiamme tubulars with high flange record hubs and some vittoria corsa g+ tanwalls that have been sitting and stretching. I also have most of the nuovo record components from an old Atala but it has an Italian bb and the headset is pitted. Ideally I'd like to build this one up a bit more period correct and a bit closer to catalogue. Gran sport or record rear derailleur, stronglight competition or nuovo record crank, record front derailleur, suntour or campagnolo bar ends , 27.2 campagnolo seatpost, gran sport headset, brooks pro or b17 and weinmann 999 or if period universal brake levers with mod 61 centerpulls. Or stay with the mafacs but i have a px-10 with them already. I wouldn't mind the maes bar and titan stem but $$$. It has a top tube 1cm longer than usually ride so I will likely end up with a 80mm or so stem.
Essentially I still need to find saddle, seatpost, rd, crank and bb if not nuovo record, headset, brakes, campag bar ends if not suntour, and bar/stem. I have an old unicanitor saddle I could try but it is fairly well used and I've never sat on one.
Other option is to throw an ultegra r8000 group on there with some 60mm carbon rims and call it a day.
04-27-20, 08:49 PM
#54
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Sounds good, really no way to go wrong here, great frame in good shape, really is a blank canvass, a very cool, specific one to be sure.
There's always this sort of thing.
There's always this sort of thing.
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04-27-20, 08:50 PM
#55
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3 pages and I havent even taken it out of the car yet. I am letting it mellow and tomorrow I will wipe it down with some disinfectant after work before having a closer look.
i have some yellow label Fiamme tubulars with high flange record hubs and some vittoria corsa g+ tanwalls that have been sitting and stretching. I also have most of the nuovo record components from an old Atala but it has an Italian bb and the headset is pitted. Ideally I'd like to build this one up a bit more period correct and a bit closer to catalogue. Gran sport or record rear derailleur, stronglight competition or nuovo record crank, record front derailleur, suntour or campagnolo bar ends , 27.2 campagnolo seatpost, gran sport headset, brooks pro or b17 and weinmann 999 or if period universal brake levers with mod 61 centerpulls. Or stay with the mafacs but i have a px-10 with them already. I wouldn't mind the maes bar and titan stem but $$$. It has a top tube 1cm longer than usually ride so I will likely end up with a 80mm or so stem.
Essentially I still need to find saddle, seatpost, rd, crank and bb if not nuovo record, headset, brakes, campag bar ends if not suntour, and bar/stem. I have an old unicanitor saddle I could try but it is fairly well used and I've never sat on one.
Other option is to throw an ultegra r8000 group on there with some 60mm carbon rims and call it a day.
i have some yellow label Fiamme tubulars with high flange record hubs and some vittoria corsa g+ tanwalls that have been sitting and stretching. I also have most of the nuovo record components from an old Atala but it has an Italian bb and the headset is pitted. Ideally I'd like to build this one up a bit more period correct and a bit closer to catalogue. Gran sport or record rear derailleur, stronglight competition or nuovo record crank, record front derailleur, suntour or campagnolo bar ends , 27.2 campagnolo seatpost, gran sport headset, brooks pro or b17 and weinmann 999 or if period universal brake levers with mod 61 centerpulls. Or stay with the mafacs but i have a px-10 with them already. I wouldn't mind the maes bar and titan stem but $$$. It has a top tube 1cm longer than usually ride so I will likely end up with a 80mm or so stem.
Essentially I still need to find saddle, seatpost, rd, crank and bb if not nuovo record, headset, brakes, campag bar ends if not suntour, and bar/stem. I have an old unicanitor saddle I could try but it is fairly well used and I've never sat on one.
Other option is to throw an ultegra r8000 group on there with some 60mm carbon rims and call it a day.
-Kurt
P.S.: Haven't forgotten about the P12/P13 chrome differences, but merziac's catalog pictures reminded me that the chrome options did change after my own '61 P12 came out in (and is such the year I'm best acquainted with). Will have to figure out what was spec'ed each year, as I'll have to work that into the Paramount Registry V2 database fields.
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04-27-20, 08:51 PM
#56
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Narhay
Here is a link to the best example I know of, of an original paint, pinstriping, and decals in the Disney style on a Paramount. You will have to deleat the space after the h to get it to work. I think your Paramount is a repaint but I dont think in Chicago. It would have had the current decals and pinstriping they were doing. A Waterford repaint is a posibility the decals and pinstriping look like there. Send Richard Schwinn an email he might recognize it.
h ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/65214324@N02/sets/72157664079369264/with/26152598586/
Here is a link to the best example I know of, of an original paint, pinstriping, and decals in the Disney style on a Paramount. You will have to deleat the space after the h to get it to work. I think your Paramount is a repaint but I dont think in Chicago. It would have had the current decals and pinstriping they were doing. A Waterford repaint is a posibility the decals and pinstriping look like there. Send Richard Schwinn an email he might recognize it.
h ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/65214324@N02/sets/72157664079369264/with/26152598586/
04-28-20, 01:37 AM
#57
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The great thing is that you can go quite a few different directions with the build - the early Paramounts are pretty workable platforms to "edit" to one's tastes.
-Kurt
P.S.: Haven't forgotten about the P12/P13 chrome differences, but merziac's catalog pictures reminded me that the chrome options did change after my own '61 P12 came out in (and is such the year I'm best acquainted with). Will have to figure out what was spec'ed each year, as I'll have to work that into the Paramount Registry V2 database fields.
-Kurt
P.S.: Haven't forgotten about the P12/P13 chrome differences, but merziac's catalog pictures reminded me that the chrome options did change after my own '61 P12 came out in (and is such the year I'm best acquainted with). Will have to figure out what was spec'ed each year, as I'll have to work that into the Paramount Registry V2 database fields.
04-28-20, 08:27 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
Ok, here we go. I spent some time with the frame set today.
One of the previous owners had an affinity for WD-40 or other solvent and the bottom bracket was pretty rank with the smell.
Cleaned up a bit.
I went over the frame with some polish and wax. One of the things that was potentially concerning was that the two dropout adjuster holes had two hard black bits in them. I thought maybe the screws had broken off and spent some time learning how to get them out. Turned out to be mummified dirt that I was able to clean out.
One thing I noted was the crown race seat was 26.5X, not 26.4. The crown race is about the same at 26.5X but it sits loosely on the seat and can easily be removed by hand and has a bit of play. Not sure if this sizing is normal. I could try a 26.4 crown race I have here from an NR headset. When installed the fork has a bit of back and forth play.
One of the previous owners had an affinity for WD-40 or other solvent and the bottom bracket was pretty rank with the smell.
Cleaned up a bit.
I went over the frame with some polish and wax. One of the things that was potentially concerning was that the two dropout adjuster holes had two hard black bits in them. I thought maybe the screws had broken off and spent some time learning how to get them out. Turned out to be mummified dirt that I was able to clean out.
One thing I noted was the crown race seat was 26.5X, not 26.4. The crown race is about the same at 26.5X but it sits loosely on the seat and can easily be removed by hand and has a bit of play. Not sure if this sizing is normal. I could try a 26.4 crown race I have here from an NR headset. When installed the fork has a bit of back and forth play.
Last edited by Narhay; 04-28-20 at 08:46 PM.
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04-28-20, 08:47 PM
#60
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Narhay
Again, think you did great, looks just fine from here.
Good deal on the RDO adjuster screw holes, one of my pet peeves, they seem to usually be broken, seized or working ok until the seller ships it without screwing them in, then you have a good usable pair of original screws that are now bent over needing to be cut off and forced out of the dropouts where they can do more damage.
Also looks like you got here somewhat just in time with the WD-40 mess, this is a good example of why it should not be used unless it is going to be cleaned off and replaced with a real substance that doesn't promote rust.
Again, think you did great, looks just fine from here.
Good deal on the RDO adjuster screw holes, one of my pet peeves, they seem to usually be broken, seized or working ok until the seller ships it without screwing them in, then you have a good usable pair of original screws that are now bent over needing to be cut off and forced out of the dropouts where they can do more damage.
Also looks like you got here somewhat just in time with the WD-40 mess, this is a good example of why it should not be used unless it is going to be cleaned off and replaced with a real substance that doesn't promote rust.
04-29-20, 07:03 AM
#61
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One thing I noted was the crown race seat was 26.5X, not 26.4. The crown race is about the same at 26.5X but it sits loosely on the seat and can easily be removed by hand and has a bit of play. Not sure if this sizing is normal. I could try a 26.4 crown race I have here from an NR headset. When installed the fork has a bit of back and forth play.
You might want to face it to 26.4 using a crown race cutter and install an NR headset.
-Kurt
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04-29-20, 07:06 PM
#62
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Looks like Richard Schwinn at Waterford did a restoration on my frame about 10 years ago. Super nice of him to respond.
04-29-20, 08:17 PM
#63
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Well, that explains the accuracy of the box lining. Few do the early pinstriping work as well and accurately as Waterford.
-Kurt
-Kurt
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04-29-20, 08:46 PM
#64
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05-03-20, 05:00 PM
#65
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Starting to clean up these high flange record hub wheels with Fiamme Ergal yellow label tubulars.
Brass wire wheel on a drill.
I have some parts coming from jeirvine so this will get built up as some maybe not quite period correct variant for the time being while I source other parts in the future.
Yes. Socks and sandals. Eat it up.
Brass wire wheel on a drill.
I have some parts coming from jeirvine so this will get built up as some maybe not quite period correct variant for the time being while I source other parts in the future.
Yes. Socks and sandals. Eat it up.
05-03-20, 05:59 PM
#66
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Sandals work better with socks. Ask the Romans.
Nice to see some progress. Is it done yet?
Keep in mind that Ergals were generally used for race day wheels. They're reasonably tough, especially given their alleged 290g weight, but avoid curb hopping and the like if you can.
Nice to see some progress. Is it done yet?
Keep in mind that Ergals were generally used for race day wheels. They're reasonably tough, especially given their alleged 290g weight, but avoid curb hopping and the like if you can.
05-03-20, 06:23 PM
#67
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So, tubular incomp here, don't they usually soften the old %$#@! glue with solvent, acetone, lacquer thinner or such first?
Asking since I have 3 or 4 display sets that I will have to get after sooner or later.
Asking since I have 3 or 4 display sets that I will have to get after sooner or later.
05-03-20, 06:27 PM
#68
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The really dry stuff gets off with a wire brush on a wheel and works great in about 10 minutes per wheel.
The next is the red stuff that isnt completely dessicated yet. I dont know what that is but I had a wire drill, acetone, mineral spirits, heat gun and sore fingers for a week. It took hours.
The last was this thick bead of yellow brown something or other. Nothing short of a jackhammer could get it off and it was several mm thick. I cut the rim off and saved the hub.
05-03-20, 06:29 PM
#69
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Sandals work better with socks. Ask the Romans.
Nice to see some progress. Is it done yet?
Keep in mind that Ergals were generally used for race day wheels. They're reasonably tough, especially given their alleged 290g weight, but avoid curb hopping and the like if you can.
Nice to see some progress. Is it done yet?
Keep in mind that Ergals were generally used for race day wheels. They're reasonably tough, especially given their alleged 290g weight, but avoid curb hopping and the like if you can.
05-03-20, 08:37 PM
#71
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Yes, still lots to do.
Cracked open the hubs and was pleasantly surprised with how they and the spokes cleaned up. The rims are in fairly good condition but they are old, used tubulars. The hubs are marked 74 (front) and 75 (rear). The hub races were flawless and there was only the very tiniest nick in one of the rear cones. Close enough for science. As record hubs go, smooth as butter.
Cracked open the hubs and was pleasantly surprised with how they and the spokes cleaned up. The rims are in fairly good condition but they are old, used tubulars. The hubs are marked 74 (front) and 75 (rear). The hub races were flawless and there was only the very tiniest nick in one of the rear cones. Close enough for science. As record hubs go, smooth as butter.
Last edited by Narhay; 05-03-20 at 08:44 PM.
05-03-20, 09:31 PM
#72
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05-04-20, 06:37 AM
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Wow... super cool find! That frame predates me by 11 years 
I grew-up on Schwinn road bikes and always lusted after the Paramounts... I didn't know that they had been around for so long. I'm excited to see where this build goes. I suppose a complete repaint is out of the question due to the "decals" actually being paint.
I grew-up on Schwinn road bikes and always lusted after the Paramounts... I didn't know that they had been around for so long. I'm excited to see where this build goes. I suppose a complete repaint is out of the question due to the "decals" actually being paint.
