Hatta Bottom Bracket Service
05-07-20, 05:01 PM
#1
WGB
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Hatta Bottom Bracket Service
Rebuilding two Schwinn Travelers. PO must have oil sprayed his own vehicles for winter (protects cars from rust caused by salted roads in winter) because both bikes covered with thick dried oil. Really hard to clean off.
The larger frame is coming along very smoothly and will be back together soon. Smaller frame, not so much.
Issue is the bottom bracket cups.
Both sets came off beautifully. Here is the set from the large framed bike. Surprisingly, there was almost no grease inside the cups
No issues with adding new grease and re-installing the cups shown in the photos.
Insides of cups do not have either loose balls or balls in a retainer. The balls appear to be installed in a covered race that is stamped into the cup and which doesn't want to come loose ("semi-sealed" bearings?). Inside of both cups stamped "Pre-lube", "Japan" and what looks like "Hatta".
The second set of cups look worse, but still in pretty good shape. Sorry, didn't photo those cups as they are soaking in the dregs of my Evaporust. The "top cover" of the race for both of those second set cups have rust spots. From what I can see of them, the bearings look good but I'd like to look under that cover to see if there is any rust hidden in there (pitting) and to see if the bearings should be replaced.
I have never seen cups like those and don't want to damage if I don't have to. Can anyone advise if I can pry those top covers off? Were they made to be used once and tossed instead of servicing?
I looked on Velobase but didn't find any company named Hatta.
The larger frame is coming along very smoothly and will be back together soon. Smaller frame, not so much.
Issue is the bottom bracket cups.
Both sets came off beautifully. Here is the set from the large framed bike. Surprisingly, there was almost no grease inside the cups
No issues with adding new grease and re-installing the cups shown in the photos.
Insides of cups do not have either loose balls or balls in a retainer. The balls appear to be installed in a covered race that is stamped into the cup and which doesn't want to come loose ("semi-sealed" bearings?). Inside of both cups stamped "Pre-lube", "Japan" and what looks like "Hatta".
The second set of cups look worse, but still in pretty good shape. Sorry, didn't photo those cups as they are soaking in the dregs of my Evaporust. The "top cover" of the race for both of those second set cups have rust spots. From what I can see of them, the bearings look good but I'd like to look under that cover to see if there is any rust hidden in there (pitting) and to see if the bearings should be replaced.
I have never seen cups like those and don't want to damage if I don't have to. Can anyone advise if I can pry those top covers off? Were they made to be used once and tossed instead of servicing?
I looked on Velobase but didn't find any company named Hatta.
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05-07-20, 05:09 PM
#2
Full Member
i had a couple of those two years ago and never did figure a way of getting them out without (what would have been) damage. But the good news is I simply overstuffed then with grease and they worked just fine. Still using them on my Ross "rain bike".
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05-07-20, 06:34 PM
#3
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Hatta Swan... great BB and if not mistaken, still in the biz. Not sure you can separate the bb race from the bearings.
I want that larger Traveler frame!
I want that larger Traveler frame!
05-07-20, 09:43 PM
#4
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grayEZrider - If it can't be opened up, I'll probably just let the rusted one soak in Evaporust for another few days then grease it and re-install and see what happens. We're getting a cold spell which brings out the lazy boy in me.
3speedslow - Still have to finish cleaning and polishing that frame. Expect it'd be cheaper to grab one where you are. I see deals down there and I shake my head! There is a 56cm Univega Gran Turismo in Wilmington (I usually ride 63cm) asking $200 which looks really nice but owner thinks it's a 15 speed so maybe has no clue.......
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2887393790285/ and a Specialized (can't see model for $60 in Morehead City that looks about a 56cm https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...1318548816358/
These Travelers have downtube shifter bosses which I think were only there for a few years, I think around '85 but i don't have any catalogues to check.
3speedslow - Still have to finish cleaning and polishing that frame. Expect it'd be cheaper to grab one where you are. I see deals down there and I shake my head! There is a 56cm Univega Gran Turismo in Wilmington (I usually ride 63cm) asking $200 which looks really nice but owner thinks it's a 15 speed so maybe has no clue.......
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2887393790285/ and a Specialized (can't see model for $60 in Morehead City that looks about a 56cm https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...1318548816358/
These Travelers have downtube shifter bosses which I think were only there for a few years, I think around '85 but i don't have any catalogues to check.
Last edited by WGB; 05-07-20 at 09:48 PM.
05-08-20, 12:33 AM
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No doubt that the retention rings can be pried out, they are by appearance just stamped sheet metal and serve only to retain grease and perhaps speed installation.
05-08-20, 05:54 AM
#6
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New balls and grease into both. If it is rough after your treatment then a UN26 sealed bottom bracket ought to do the trick.
12-10-22, 04:10 PM
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Old-ish thread, but since I just did a Hatta BB......
The balls are actually held in place by a thin black plastic ring outboard of the balls- you can see it in the OP's close-up photo. Using a screw driver you can pop the balls out- basically you just need to overcome the resistance of the plastic ring. Each ball gets easier to do, then the last few will just fall out (as will the plastic ring). Q-tips and paper towels and you can clean out the cups. To reassemble I stuck a finger up into the cup, put the plastic ring on my finger and started putting fresh bearings in, using my finger to move the plastic ring around to create clearance to get the balls in. As more balls go in, the ring starts to get held in place and the last couple of balls require a little bit of pressure to get past the plastic ring and into position. I reassembled each side dry and then packed with grease once they were all together. I think one might have a hard time getting things back together if the cups were greased in advance and everything is slippery.
The balls are actually held in place by a thin black plastic ring outboard of the balls- you can see it in the OP's close-up photo. Using a screw driver you can pop the balls out- basically you just need to overcome the resistance of the plastic ring. Each ball gets easier to do, then the last few will just fall out (as will the plastic ring). Q-tips and paper towels and you can clean out the cups. To reassemble I stuck a finger up into the cup, put the plastic ring on my finger and started putting fresh bearings in, using my finger to move the plastic ring around to create clearance to get the balls in. As more balls go in, the ring starts to get held in place and the last couple of balls require a little bit of pressure to get past the plastic ring and into position. I reassembled each side dry and then packed with grease once they were all together. I think one might have a hard time getting things back together if the cups were greased in advance and everything is slippery.
12-11-22, 06:06 AM
#8
Senior Member
Old-ish thread, but since I just did a Hatta BB......
The balls are actually held in place by a thin black plastic ring outboard of the balls- you can see it in the OP's close-up photo. Using a screw driver you can pop the balls out- basically you just need to overcome the resistance of the plastic ring. Each ball gets easier to do, then the last few will just fall out (as will the plastic ring). Q-tips and paper towels and you can clean out the cups. To reassemble I stuck a finger up into the cup, put the plastic ring on my finger and started putting fresh bearings in, using my finger to move the plastic ring around to create clearance to get the balls in. As more balls go in, the ring starts to get held in place and the last couple of balls require a little bit of pressure to get past the plastic ring and into position. I reassembled each side dry and then packed with grease once they were all together. I think one might have a hard time getting things back together if the cups were greased in advance and everything is slippery.
The balls are actually held in place by a thin black plastic ring outboard of the balls- you can see it in the OP's close-up photo. Using a screw driver you can pop the balls out- basically you just need to overcome the resistance of the plastic ring. Each ball gets easier to do, then the last few will just fall out (as will the plastic ring). Q-tips and paper towels and you can clean out the cups. To reassemble I stuck a finger up into the cup, put the plastic ring on my finger and started putting fresh bearings in, using my finger to move the plastic ring around to create clearance to get the balls in. As more balls go in, the ring starts to get held in place and the last couple of balls require a little bit of pressure to get past the plastic ring and into position. I reassembled each side dry and then packed with grease once they were all together. I think one might have a hard time getting things back together if the cups were greased in advance and everything is slippery.
Almost pulled the trigger on a NOS set of Hatta BB cups, but noticed the pressed-in retainers and couldn't figure out how I'd service them without removing the retainers and risking damage to them and/or the cups themselves. I didn't want to do that, so I passed. I no longer really need them, so I'll likely continue to pass (I think the vendor still has them).
12-11-22, 06:54 AM
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I just encountered this confusion also. I just left the old balls in and flushed and regreased. It did hurt my pride a bit to not replace the bearings, but I will see how it goes and file this info in my leaky memory. Thanks for posting.
12-11-22, 08:36 AM
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Funny thing is I have no idea how I figured out getting the loose bearings out in the first place. I dismantled the old Trek and cleaned up the parts right after I got it this summer and only just started putting it back together. I think it was probably in the effort to get all the old, dried up grease out that a bearing must have just popped out. While I'm not a huge fan of plastic 'bits' in general, I think it's actually kind of a cool design- makes for a neat and easy installation of a BB with loose bearings.
12-11-22, 08:38 AM
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Long ago, I acquired a vintage cross bike with Hatta (Swan model) headset and Hatta bottom bracket, a brand unknown to me. I assumed it was some budget Japanese part, but found out differently, essentially the following: (edited copy from a HATTA 9400 ad on "Track Supermarket". A Japanese shop, that has an online sales website)
"Hatta is one of the most respected parts manufacturers in Japan. Their parts lineup focuses purely on headset and bottom bracket parts for track racing. The R9400 is Hatta's Keirin approved offering, suitable for use with various NJS cranks, including Dura Ace square taper models. Since Shimano stopped making bottom brackets suitable for use with their square taper track cranks, Hatta R9400 is now the officially recommended BB set to match the Dura Ace FC-7600 crankset. The Hatta R9400 is used by 65% of Keirin pro riders and the Hatta Swan NJS headset is used by 95% of Keirin pro riders." Don
"Hatta is one of the most respected parts manufacturers in Japan. Their parts lineup focuses purely on headset and bottom bracket parts for track racing. The R9400 is Hatta's Keirin approved offering, suitable for use with various NJS cranks, including Dura Ace square taper models. Since Shimano stopped making bottom brackets suitable for use with their square taper track cranks, Hatta R9400 is now the officially recommended BB set to match the Dura Ace FC-7600 crankset. The Hatta R9400 is used by 65% of Keirin pro riders and the Hatta Swan NJS headset is used by 95% of Keirin pro riders." Don
12-11-22, 10:53 AM
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Old-ish thread, but since I just did a Hatta BB......
The balls are actually held in place by a thin black plastic ring outboard of the balls- you can see it in the OP's close-up photo. Using a screw driver you can pop the balls out- basically you just need to overcome the resistance of the plastic ring. .
The balls are actually held in place by a thin black plastic ring outboard of the balls- you can see it in the OP's close-up photo. Using a screw driver you can pop the balls out- basically you just need to overcome the resistance of the plastic ring. .
Haven't put it back in service yet, being not that familiar with this type want to make sure I got it back together right.
12-11-22, 12:22 PM
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Funny to see this, I had done the BB on my High Sierra (which has this type BB) the night before you posted this info. Which way did you orient the bevel on the plastic ring when you put yours back together? Facing in - towards the bearing balls, or facing out - towards the crank arm? Only way, seemingly, I could get the bearing balls back in was with the bevel facing in towards the bearing balls.
Haven't put it back in service yet, being not that familiar with this type want to make sure I got it back together right.
Haven't put it back in service yet, being not that familiar with this type want to make sure I got it back together right.
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12-11-22, 01:14 PM
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03-25-24, 10:29 AM
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I have just serviced pair of these. Just take one ball out and others will get out easier. Inner dust ring is removable, so with a little patient you should manage to service them
