Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

1978 Holdsworth Frame Upgrades

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

1978 Holdsworth Frame Upgrades

Old 06-06-20, 03:31 PM
  #26  
jlaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 909

Bikes: 2015 Spec. AWOL Elite, 2007 Spec. Roubaix Elite, 2003 Spec. Big Hit 2, 1998 VooDoo Zobop, 1985 Trek 410, 1984 Trek 620 1985 Trek 620, 1979 Trek 710

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times in 78 Posts
Originally Posted by davefidd View Post
jlaw you can see some pics now
Yes - very nice!

I agree with others - keep the fork. I like modern components but I don't think that the expense of a carbon fork will be worth it -might save a few grams (and look pretty cool on an old frame with original paint) but actually provide a harsher ride than that nice steel fork (531 steel?) you have now with the 'flick' or curve at at the bottom.

Here's my suggestion - which I've recommended many times before to other posters:

650b wheels - this will allow for larger tires - maybe 35 to 38mm. Measure a distance of 320mm from the front and rear axle to the choke points (fork crown, chain stays, seat stays). The distance between the forks, chain stays, and seat stays will tell you how wide a tire is possible with 650b. Leave yourself at least 4mm clearance on each side of the tire.

If you go 650b you will need longer-reach brakes. The Tektro 559s are a popular and affordable choice for this. Measure the reach that you actually need before buying (brake bolt hole to the rim) - you may be able to use a 'medium-reach' brake or there is a small possibility that you would need something longer than the 73mm max. that the 559s provide. This question should be answered BEFORE you decide to use 650b wheels. You'll need to make sure that your brake levers work with the new brakes (long pull vs. short pull).

If you can fit a 130mm hub between the rear dropouts I'd go with a 2x10 drivetrain with a super compact crank. An MTB crank with something like 40/28 and a 10 speed cassette with 11/32 or 11/34 is nice if you have hills. Flatter terrain or stronger rider might go with a 46/30 crank (the new Shimano GRX 10 speed gravel components are reasonably priced). You'll need a new RD, but the original FD might work if you are friction shifting the FD. I like Shimano 10 speed indexed downtube shifters - but they only work with a road RD. If you are going to use brifters then you should consult your vendor (or BF) to make sure all your new parts are compatible.

For the stem you can use a threadless adapter in order to be able to use 31.8 bars and a threadless stem with a removable faceplate. Or, you could re-use the existing 1" threaded stem and bars - or a Nitto Technomic (tall) stem with original bars or new bars that are 26.0(?)mm like the original. Another option - Velo Orange makes a cool 1" threaded stem with a removable face plate - a bit pricey but nice quality and less ugly than a threadless adapter. https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ceplate-31-8mm



You can re-use the seat post and whatever seat you want.

Get some fenders that are about 10 to 15mm wider than your new tires. Your frame and fork are ready to accept these. Fender installation requires some fiddling and patience. Good fenders come with a bag of hardware that should cover all of the possible challenges.

How much stuff do you want to carry on this bike? This is not a touring rig or an 'adventure' bike - light/medium loads only. Perhaps a front rack with a bag of some sort. Here's one possibility that should be fairly easy to fit - but this means installing fender stays and the bottom connection for this rack into the lone eyelet near the dropouts on your fork. https://velo-orange.com/collections/racks/products/vo-
constructeur-front-rack


Basically, I'm recommending a randonneur-style bike. I simply like the looks and function of that style. However, my ideas are adding some weight to your bike - but to me that doesn't matter. If done this way the completed bike would probably weight in the neighborhood of 28 to 30#.

So, these are my ideas - there are plenty of other possibilities.


jlaw is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:09 PM
  #27  
jetboy 
Senior Member
 
jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,290

Bikes: centurion ironman, look hinault 753, Zunow z-1, 83 stumpy sport, look kg96, various others

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 103 Posts
Originally Posted by davefidd View Post
Hi Jetboy, yeah that's pretty much what I want to achieve and one of the main reasons why I want to put together a bike with such features. Unfortunately I live in Scotland, sorry pal!
Its a good path: one i have done myself in the past, but then moved and changed jobs so that I have a lot more open flat then huge hills on my commute so throwing my fully geared bike on my shoulder is a small price to pay for the speed and climbing capabilities gears give me.

Also Scotland makes sense: few in the US would be thinking to mod a Holdsworth as they are relatively rare (and beautiful) - and why not just mod a Schwinn?

As others I'd keep the fork as unless you spend serious money on a CF fork, its not actually that much of a weight gain. The weight vs price is huge on CF forks: cheap ones are heavy, expensive ones are light- if you have the cash, go for it and get something ridiculous. but if you have not, you wont gain much if anything over the original.

bars and cranks- yes: why not. seatpost and saddle, sure. then its all about the wheels. I have not found a set of wheels that are light, strong, and smooth for less than $300 USD. so that is a big consideration but makes more difference for the ride than anything else.
jetboy is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 02:39 AM
  #28  
davefidd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks jlaw , all good ideas and advice! I'll give it a thought!
davefidd is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 02:43 AM
  #29  
davefidd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
jetboy thanks for your thoughts Yeah, at the end of the day the CF fork is more of a cosmetic choice for me as I can't afford to spend hundreds on a very light product. What about lightweight wheels for no more than 300 bucks? Any recommendations? Cheers! D
davefidd is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 06:06 AM
  #30  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,667

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 926 Times in 564 Posts
I've never understood the reason for this. Once you take an older steel bike and change the fork for carbon fiber and put some sort of deep dish modern wheels on it the ride characteriistics are completely lost so why would you do it?

I've replaced all freewheels with a cassette hub to reduce axle issues but still use box section rims to get the ride quality. I can understand upgrading to index downtube shifters. If you want an all modern bike just go buy one.
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 06-07-20, 06:37 AM
  #31  
J.Higgins 
Covid Hermit
 
J.Higgins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,441

Bikes: Bilenky Tourlite, Surly Ogre

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1366 Post(s)
Liked 635 Times in 433 Posts
Originally Posted by davefidd View Post
Thanks Wildwood ! Which fork did you use?
I would like to toss my two coppers onto the table here, concerning 1" threadless forks. My advice is that if you are still going to do this, unzip your skull, and wash your brain with hot soapy water. Let dry, and resume coherent thought. My experiences with 1" threadless has been in range of poor to just north of unsatisfactory. This, and if you wanted to run a handlebar sized in 31.8, the stem choices are even fewer. Not good. My Bilenky has 1" threadless, and I consider it the only flaw in the bike.

Can you tell how I feel about 1" threadless?
J.Higgins is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 07:13 AM
  #32  
jeirvine 
Senior Member
 
jeirvine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bethesda/Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,736

Bikes: '72 Moto Grand Record, '72 Gitane tandem, '72 Raleigh Super Course, '73 Raleigh Gran Sport, '73 and '76 Colnagos Super, '76 Fiorelli Coppi, '78 Raleigh SBDU Team Pro, '78 Trek 930, '81 Holdsworth Special 650B, '86 Masi GC, '87 Panasonic DX5000

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 675 Post(s)
Liked 283 Times in 167 Posts
Originally Posted by jlaw View Post
Yes - very nice!

I agree with others - keep the fork. I like modern components but I don't think that the expense of a carbon fork will be worth it -might save a few grams (and look pretty cool on an old frame with original paint) but actually provide a harsher ride than that nice steel fork (531 steel?) you have now with the 'flick' or curve at at the bottom.

Here's my suggestion - which I've recommended many times before to other posters:

650b wheels - this will allow for larger tires - maybe 35 to 38mm. Measure a distance of 320mm from the front and rear axle to the choke points (fork crown, chain stays, seat stays). The distance between the forks, chain stays, and seat stays will tell you how wide a tire is possible with 650b. Leave yourself at least 4mm clearance on each side of the tire.

If you go 650b you will need longer-reach brakes. The Tektro 559s are a popular and affordable choice for this. Measure the reach that you actually need before buying (brake bolt hole to the rim) - you may be able to use a 'medium-reach' brake or there is a small possibility that you would need something longer than the 73mm max. that the 559s provide. This question should be answered BEFORE you decide to use 650b wheels. You'll need to make sure that your brake levers work with the new brakes (long pull vs. short pull).

If you can fit a 130mm hub between the rear dropouts I'd go with a 2x10 drivetrain with a super compact crank. An MTB crank with something like 40/28 and a 10 speed cassette with 11/32 or 11/34 is nice if you have hills. Flatter terrain or stronger rider might go with a 46/30 crank (the new Shimano GRX 10 speed gravel components are reasonably priced). You'll need a new RD, but the original FD might work if you are friction shifting the FD. I like Shimano 10 speed indexed downtube shifters - but they only work with a road RD. If you are going to use brifters then you should consult your vendor (or BF) to make sure all your new parts are compatible.

For the stem you can use a threadless adapter in order to be able to use 31.8 bars and a threadless stem with a removable faceplate. Or, you could re-use the existing 1" threaded stem and bars - or a Nitto Technomic (tall) stem with original bars or new bars that are 26.0(?)mm like the original. Another option - Velo Orange makes a cool 1" threaded stem with a removable face plate - a bit pricey but nice quality and less ugly than a threadless adapter. https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ceplate-31-8mm

You can re-use the seat post and whatever seat you want.

Get some fenders that are about 10 to 15mm wider than your new tires. Your frame and fork are ready to accept these. Fender installation requires some fiddling and patience. Good fenders come with a bag of hardware that should cover all of the possible challenges.

How much stuff do you want to carry on this bike? This is not a touring rig or an 'adventure' bike - light/medium loads only. Perhaps a front rack with a bag of some sort. Here's one possibility that should be fairly easy to fit - but this means installing fender stays and the bottom connection for this rack into the lone eyelet near the dropouts on your fork. https://velo-orange.com/collections/racks/products/vo-
constructeur-front-rack


Basically, I'm recommending a randonneur-style bike. I simply like the looks and function of that style. However, my ideas are adding some weight to your bike - but to me that doesn't matter. If done this way the completed bike would probably weight in the neighborhood of 28 to 30#.

So, these are my ideas - there are plenty of other possibilities.
That's basically what I did to my 81 Holdsworth Special. The 650B wheels fit fine with Weinmann 750's.
__________________
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
jeirvine is offline  
Likes For jeirvine:
Old 06-07-20, 11:44 AM
  #33  
blamester
Blamester
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 973

Bikes: Peugeot teamline

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 90 Times in 76 Posts




There's mine. Columbus minimal fork.
Carbon bars , allloy stem shimmed and 1 inch everything else.
Threadlless is the way to go so many more options. So simple to work on. And for me an excellent upgrade.
blamester is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 01:11 PM
  #34  
davefidd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
blamester nice! This is pretty much what I had in mind. Would that fork suit a fixed gear bike? Thanks! D
davefidd is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 01:41 PM
  #35  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
I have spent most of my working life renovating and restoring homes. As a hobby, I do the same with bicycles. If I can't do a faithful restoration using all of the original parts, then I at least use period correct parts of the same performance level.



Last edited by branko_76; 06-07-20 at 10:16 PM.
branko_76 is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 02:53 PM
  #36  
Piff 
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 118 Posts
I say go for it. It's an unadorned frame that's ready for some more riding, whatever the groupset.

RiddleOfSteel has made some really nice retro roadies, he might have some advice to give.
Piff is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 05:25 PM
  #37  
jetboy 
Senior Member
 
jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,290

Bikes: centurion ironman, look hinault 753, Zunow z-1, 83 stumpy sport, look kg96, various others

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 103 Posts
Yes: I think people are still a bit colored as we in the US have a bit of reverence to a nice holdsworth frame. In your neck of the woods they are far more common.

But I do agree: if you aren't up to spend the serious money, then your original fork is way better than anything you can get at a price point. Let that go as you are getting nothing for a ton of money- where it could be spend better in wheels. many modern sets would fine- I like ultegra 6800 if I have the chance- not the lightest but smoothest i've ever had and quality. Shimano has its issues but its a hard sell to say they don't do things right in terms of a quality product.
jetboy is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 05:32 PM
  #38  
grindher
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PDX
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Fixed gear?

I believe the OP is going to set it up as a fixed gear.
I could be wrong.
Post#10

Last edited by grindher; 06-07-20 at 05:37 PM. Reason: added post#10
grindher is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 07:22 PM
  #39  
blamester
Blamester
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 973

Bikes: Peugeot teamline

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 90 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by davefidd View Post
blamester nice! This is pretty much what I had in mind. Would that fork suit a fixed gear bike? Thanks! D
No problem single speed.
So easy to set up.
Tbh if I was doing it again I would buy the hylix fork and inspect it. They are cheap.
blamester is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 07:36 PM
  #40  
blamester
Blamester
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 973

Bikes: Peugeot teamline

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 90 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I've never understood the reason for this. Once you take an older steel bike and change the fork for carbon fiber and put some sort of deep dish modern wheels on it the ride characteriistics are completely lost so why would you do it?

I've replaced all freewheels with a cassette hub to reduce axle issues but still use box section rims to get the ride quality. I can understand upgrading to index downtube shifters. If you want an all modern bike just go buy one.
I can see your point on this but it can be a brilliant upgrade over a steel fork. It's so easy to adjust the fit. They are light and handle good. Modern carbon bars are very good.
And most modern road bikes look awful.
So don't knock it till you have tried it.
I wouldn't put one on every bike but they have a place if you know what you want.

Last edited by blamester; 06-07-20 at 07:39 PM.
blamester is offline  
Old 06-07-20, 07:46 PM
  #41  
jlaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 909

Bikes: 2015 Spec. AWOL Elite, 2007 Spec. Roubaix Elite, 2003 Spec. Big Hit 2, 1998 VooDoo Zobop, 1985 Trek 410, 1984 Trek 620 1985 Trek 620, 1979 Trek 710

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times in 78 Posts
Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
That's basically what I did to my 81 Holdsworth Special. The 650B wheels fit fine with Weinmann 750's.
Looks great! Big bike.
jlaw is offline  
Old 06-08-20, 10:57 AM
  #42  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
I can understand the fixed gear appeal, i.e. keeping it simple. What I don't get is the carbon fork, how is that an "upgrade" ?
branko_76 is offline  
Likes For branko_76:
Old 06-08-20, 01:03 PM
  #43  
davefidd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
branko_76 Hi! The fork was more for the sake of weight reduction and also a modern look .. But since most people recommended not to change the fork I might just stick to the original..
davefidd is offline  
Likes For davefidd:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.