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Cannondale Criterium from ???

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Cannondale Criterium from ???

Old 06-18-20, 06:29 AM
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zacster
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Cannondale Criterium from ???

I have a C'Dale Criterium series bike that my wife had bought new but can't remember when. It is white with a blue Cannondale lettering across the top tube, has Suntour Accushift derailleurs and shifters on it, DiaCompe brakes and a Sugino crank. Wheels had Mistral rims, don't know the hubs offhand. The rear wheel isn't the original although I have that in my basement somewhere and has a 6sp freewheel on it. I think that is the original setup too, but I'd have to dig out the wheel.

Any ideas when it is from and if it is worth restoring?

The shifters are all frozen, the cables need replacing but the barrels are stuck. The brakes worked OK, but not like a modern bike. I took it for a test spin after replacing the front tire and the rim tape and it rode OK. It is stiff as hell of course. The bike was on my trainer for a number of years and while I always threw a towel over the bars my son didn't, plus the damp basement, and all the exposed components are getting pitted. The frame is clean though.
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Old 06-18-20, 06:40 AM
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Post a few pictures. A 6 speed freewheel suggests mid 1980s.

A Cannondale frame is almost always (unless dented or cracked) worth restoring and they upgrade nicely with modern parts. Check the spacing of the rear wheel. If it is close to or at 130mm your possibilities are nearly limitless.
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Old 06-18-20, 09:54 AM
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It is 126 spacing and I know that limits the possibilities. I’ve put 10sp 130 hubs on old steel frames by spreading but it would take a hydraulic press to budge the stays on this and then you’d crack it.

I will post pics later
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Old 06-18-20, 11:59 AM
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First Cannondale Criterium’s came out in 1987. I have a 1988 that is my main rider. The original 80’s Criteriums have somewhat of a cult following. But they are a love-hate due to stiffness. With a steel fork I find the ride to be fine. For me it has been the most fun bike to ride and is so stable for a steep HA bike. I would call it a fast bike in relation to the era.

You can run a “more modern” drivetrain up to a point. Some here will say just shove a 130mm OLD and ride since the bike is so stout. I would prefer to bring the FH down a 2/3 mm’s with thinner washers/locknuts.

Everything else is the same as any other C&V 1” threaded headset road bike.

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Old 06-18-20, 12:02 PM
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Old 06-18-20, 12:12 PM
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There is hope.

Mine with 7 speed cassette, Ultegra triple, XTR derailleurs, and Dura Ace...



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Old 06-18-20, 12:23 PM
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Cannondale's dropouts were usually setup to 127.5mm width. That is why those of us who have them run 130mm hubs just fine with a little spread upon insertion. I run 10s Campy in both my 1984 ST and my 1985 SR (Crit bike). DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SPREAD THE REAR DROPOUTS PERMANENTLY. And if anyone tells you to do that, stop listening to them and walk away. You can also run older stuff as well. I never had a problem with the ride but I have been on aluminum frames most of my life. And I drive 4x4's and trucks with stiffer suspension so anything else feels mushy to me.
That looks to be a 88/89 vintage but it looks like a shop swapped parts with a frame from something else and a SR300/SR400 series.
Cannondale essentially made two road frames, a touring model and a racing or Criterium bike and differentiated with components. So even if you had a lower priced model it was the same frame as a higher priced model and you could always upgrade based on your budget.
Yes they are worth updating and they handle modern components just fine.
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Old 06-18-20, 01:40 PM
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One other question. I see that there was one hub that was 126 spacing but had a freehub, the Shimano 1055. It was limited to 7sp, but is it really? Couldn't I put 8 or 9 of a 10 or 11 cassette on it and then use the matching brifter and just set the limit screws? I would do this because the later brifters work better than the early ones. I rented an 11sp 105 equipped bike and was impressed by how well it worked, better than my Chorus 10 on my main ride. Anyway, is it possible? I'm not necessarily going to do it. This bike is for my adult daughter who saw it in our basement and wondered why nobody ever used it, and thinks it's cute. She didn't like the feel of the brake hoods though and if I were to replace that, well that just is the start of that slippery slope,
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Old 06-18-20, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
One other question. I see that there was one hub that was 126 spacing but had a freehub, the Shimano 1055. It was limited to 7sp, but is it really? Couldn't I put 8 or 9 of a 10 or 11 cassette on it and then use the matching brifter and just set the limit screws? I would do this because the later brifters work better than the early ones. I rented an 11sp 105 equipped bike and was impressed by how well it worked, better than my Chorus 10 on my main ride. Anyway, is it possible? I'm not necessarily going to do it. This bike is for my adult daughter who saw it in our basement and wondered why nobody ever used it, and thinks it's cute. She didn't like the feel of the brake hoods though and if I were to replace that, well that just is the start of that slippery slope,
No. The length of cable pull and the distance ratio the derailleur moves is different between the two, along with cassette spacing. You could go up to 10s I know with a 130mm hub width. Not sure about 11s or more, probably depends on the group/hub.
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Old 06-18-20, 03:09 PM
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If you can live with a 12t instead of an 11t you can run 10 of 11 speeds on an 8-10 speed FH with 105 11 speed shifters and derailleurs. Just drop the 11t (12-28 instead of 11-28). If you are running a freewheel and don't upgrade you won't even get to 12t, unless it is a Dura Ace, and no more than 7 speeds.

Measure your dropouts and go from there. I have an '86 Cannondale that measures 125.9mm. Once you figure out the FH setup, the rest is easy. Install what components you want.

My original intention was to use a DA FH-7700 hub and swap out the locknuts and use thinner washers. The 7700 locknuts are 4.6mm wide and I have locknuts that are 3.6mm. By doing nothing more than swapping out the locknuts I get to 128mm without re-dishing. In the end I slapped on an XT 7 speed freehub body and went that route. This is not rocket science.

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Old 06-18-20, 04:02 PM
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I measured and it was 5" + tiny amount, so maybe it was 127.x. Since I have many 130 spaced wheels I can just give it a try. It's a shame that the DT shifters are so stiff and the cables are toast. I have two steel bikes that are 126 spaced that I run Campy 10sp on with Campy friction shifters and derailleurs and these shift almost as good as brifters. There is no "in-between", a light touch is all it takes and they are silent. I just always thought this C'dale wouldn't take them. Good to know people use them this way.

That said, my daughter gave it a try today and didn't like the brakes and levers. If I have to replace the levers...

Oh, and another thing, I ordered a KMC x10 chain from Amazon and first they sent me a 7sp. When I sent it back for an exchange they sent me the entire box of 10sp chains. I have 4 extras from one of my other builds. Lots of 10sp chains and that would drive me to use 10sp spacing. I did also build a 10sp Campy setup with a Shimano splined hub for my trainer and it shifts as well as my Campy native setup. That wasn't always possible. I guess I'll just fool around with this and make it work.

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Old 06-18-20, 07:49 PM
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Let’s back up a step or two here.

First off, the real value is in the frame. Everything else from that model and period is a compromise.
So, yes, a 130OLD wheelset will fit just fine. No need to cold set (!) just slide them in with your thumbs. That means 7-8-9-10 speed all work.
Second, with all due respect to Suntour lovers out there,you can do SO much better with vintage Shimano. It’s all cross-compatible as long as it’s SIS.
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Old 06-19-20, 02:50 AM
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I keep forgetting that even though I have 130 wheels with 10sp I'd have to take off the chain and put a 10sp chain on it to even try. Maybe I'll wait on that. In the meantime I'll look for a pair of DT shifters. I don't think I have an old set myself.
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Old 06-19-20, 10:16 AM
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Get another set of Campy friction if they work with a 10 speed cassette. I used Simplex/Mavic Retrofriction shifters for many years (my favorite) and they might be a good choice.

It takes a lot of talent to friction shift with the cogs spaced so close, beyond my ability. IIRC, the Simplex/Mavic were a pretty long throw (less cable pull). That can be good (precise) and bad (length of arc). Maybe someone here has used them with a 10 speed cassette.

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Old 06-19-20, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Let’s back up a step or two here.

First off, the real value is in the frame. Everything else from that model and period is a compromise.
So, yes, a 130OLD wheelset will fit just fine. No need to cold set (!) just slide them in with your thumbs. That means 7-8-9-10 speed all work.
Second, with all due respect to Suntour lovers out there,you can do SO much better with vintage Shimano. It’s all cross-compatible as long as it’s SIS.
And that is sweet frame! The Crits that came out before the cantied rear drop out are awesome.
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Old 06-19-20, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
And that is sweet frame! The Crits that came out before the cantied rear drop out are awesome.
I've come across such remarks denigrating the Cannondale frames with the cantilever dropouts before. From what I remember from my days working at a Cannodale dealership, the cantilever dropouts were introduced solely to get around one of Gary Klein's patents. The cantilever design has no effect on the ride or durability of the bike, Internet-based conjecture notwithstanding.

That said, I wouldn't mind owning one of the earlier Crit frames, either.
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Old 06-19-20, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by canopus View Post
Cannondale essentially made two road frames, a touring model and a racing or Criterium bike and differentiated with components.
To clarify, that's actually a total of three road frames: touring, road racing, and criterium racing. The criterium frames are, in effect, track racing frames reconfigured for road use: very short wheelbase, very steep angles, very quick and stable handling. Terrific bikes, then and now.
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Old 06-19-20, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I've come across such remarks denigrating the Cannondale frames with the cantilever dropouts before. From what I remember from my days working at a Cannodale dealership, the cantilever dropouts were introduced solely to get around one of Gary Klein's patents. The cantilever design has no effect on the ride or durability of the bike, Internet-based conjecture notwithstanding.

That said, I wouldn't mind owning one of the earlier Crit frames, either.
I have to say that I owe my Criterium to Gary Klein. There was a bike shop that was blowing out the old style Cannondale frames with fork for $100 in 1989/90. They said that because of the lawsuit they had to dump them. They had a Criterium, held it for me, and I broke every law in the vehicle code to get there before they closed.

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Old 06-19-20, 08:38 PM
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Wow. I had no idea that these were even considered decent bikes. This one was the low end version and it never got used. I repacked the front hub when I found it to be stiff and I expected it to be al pitted out like the outside components but it came out like buttah. I can't remember why we replaced the rear wheel, except maybe because it had a flat and I wanted a quick change for the trainer. I found the original rear, maybe I'll swap over the tire/tube, except that then I need another roll of rim tape. I'm still looking at shifters, whether downtube or new 9/10/11 brifters. Can't decide. I should try some WD40 on the current ones to see if they free up. I'll do that now so it can soak in overnight.

Oh, the reason for this whole project is that my daughter thought the bike was "cute" with the white frame and blue lettering.
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Old 06-19-20, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I've come across such remarks denigrating the Cannondale frames with the cantilever dropouts before. From what I remember from my days working at a Cannodale dealership, the cantilever dropouts were introduced solely to get around one of Gary Klein's patents. The cantilever design has no effect on the ride or durability of the bike, Internet-based conjecture notwithstanding.

That said, I wouldn't mind owning one of the earlier Crit frames, either.
Oh!
I have a canti framed mountain bike, I have no worries bout its strength. I just like the earlier ones better. And that they were only produced for two(?) years makes them collectable. I had a beat up smurf blue 500 with the zig zag yellow “custom” paint (to hide the less-than-true tubing, and a beautiful Black Lighting.
When I got the BL I sold off the 500... but then I let go of the BL because I was always worried about riding it anywhere.
But I would love to find another 500 Crit from ‘88, something I wouldn’t mind cranking on.
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Old 06-22-20, 07:59 PM
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I took it for a longer ride today, only 15 miles but still long enough to get a feel, and the brakes just suck. I had drilled out the shifter barrel and the old cable finally came out and with a new cable it shifts just like new, which is to say crappy but workable. 11 speed Di2 it is NOT, but it works.

There are 3 issues with the braking. First, the levers themselves are not comfortable to hold, the hoods slide around and they are just angled wrong. Second, the calipers are very flexy and make for a spongy stop. Third, the pads are old in any case and don't stop well. On top of that the cables are frayed at the ends so are not reusable even though they don't present any issue. I'd feel more comfortable just replacing them anyway. I figure between the levers, the pads and the cables I'm already spending about 75% of what a completely new setup would cost. I looked around and see that the most current 105 calipers are relatively cheap, and I've used Tektro road levers in the past as they are a Campy copy. Anybody think they won't be a good combo? And do the Tektros come with cables?

The bike has a long housing from the levers to the brakes, but I've always preferred open cable between stops on the top tube as it is stiffer. Any reason not to do that?

And one more thing, that bike is a rocket. It is stiff as hell and feels it when you stand. I want to put my power meter pedals on it to see how it does.
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Old 06-22-20, 08:22 PM
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Any sign of a serial number? With that you can decode it at vintage Cannondale for the date of mfgr. I had a '91 SR300, Crit geometry, and I regret selling it to this day, it was a weapon indeed. I am large, so the stiffness and durability of those second generation large diameter tubes was welcome the I was really cranking hard, I was blessed with big, powerful legs, have no idea as to why though. Great thing is, all levels shared the same frame set, just the components and wheels were different. So, you could build an entry level bike, like my 300, up to the level your wallet allowed.

Now its a CAAD 10, with all 6800 Ultegra that it my daily rider. My two C&V Italians are kept up and ridden when it hits me to take one out. Yours looks nice, should be fun to build it to suit your needs and tastes. Please keep us updated on how this one proceeds.

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Old 06-23-20, 07:18 AM
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I decided to upgrade the brakes completely. Campy Centaur, Tektro RL341 short reach levers (a Campy copy), and Jagwire cables. That should make for decent stopping power. I was actually looking at 105 R7000 calipers at first but I thought the look of the Campy silver set was nice with the jewel finish. I'm a Campy guy, with Chorus 10 on my main bike and old SR and NR on my classic steel bikes. I will have to say though that the 10sp XT I put on my commuter bike works better than any of it with its light touch. I held off on the new bar tape that I bought last week since I knew that I wasn't going to like those old levers/hoods.

This bike is for my daughter so it won't get ridden very hard unless she suddenly decides to become a real cyclist. She can ride it now at least with the shifting working and the brakes will come next week sometime.
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Old 06-23-20, 09:18 AM
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Those Dia Compe calipers were nothing to write home about. Good dual pivots are so much better. Kool Stop pads help also.

As for the top tube housing... those black cable guides are tough to impossible to find. If you add cable stops to the top tube, don’t toss those guides out. I’m not sure there is much advantage, other than a little less cable friction, over fully housed. Good brakes will stop either way.

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Old 06-23-20, 02:51 PM
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When I realized there were no stops I figured I'd just replace the housing for the whole length. I found Jagwire housing in a blue to match the lettering, instead of the no-longer-white housing it has now.

My daughter had me take off the original pedals and put on flat ones. She's more the type to wear boots than sports type shoes. Whatever. I made sure to grease the threads so they'll come off easily and I can swap in my power meters if I take it for a spin. It also has a quick release seatpost clamp so that is easy also, I put that on when both my wife and I were using it on the trainer, or at least she said she would use it. Maybe once or twice...
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