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Ruling Pen or Pin-stripping Brush?

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Ruling Pen or Pin-stripping Brush?

Old 09-23-20, 05:47 PM
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Ruling Pen or Pin-stripping Brush?

Just sitting around and killing sometime before going back to work and I was wondering if any knows how the pin-striping was done on the really ornate lugs back in the day.
On many of the fancier stripping jobs, there is always a small amount of space between the edge of the lug and the stripe.
IMO, It is much nicer than the stuff done with a paint pen. I have heard some people say a ruling pen was used if that was the case how do you think it was done without marring the paint etc.
Stripping on those tight curves of the early Schwinn Paramount's..Just Wow.
Any ideas? Any pictures?
Best, Ben

Fine work, clean, not too heavy!

The original appears much cleaner than the "restored" work from Waterford.

Waterford, '" restored".
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Old 09-23-20, 05:59 PM
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By hand and with a brush, would be my guess. I used to pin stripe my paint jobs on motorcycles and I used a proper striping brush and Quick Shot enamel pin striping paint. I think, it has been many years since I even thought about those days.
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Old 09-23-20, 11:02 PM
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The Taylors used a roller for Jack's paint work, as seen at 12:00-14:54 in this video. In the video you can see Jack doing his famous box lining, but I imagine he could have used it for lug lining as well. For the tinier curves, I imagine they would have had to use a brush. He does mention they previously had a man do it with a brush.

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Old 09-24-20, 05:01 AM
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I have seen several sources using the vintage ruling pen (aka drafting pen, draftsman's pen, technical pen), here is one example:
I am attempting to use one now to do some lug lining but am not near as proficient as the guy in the video. Knocked over my can of one-shot just yesterday, sigh.....
In poking around, I see there might be more modern, refillable, technical pens, something like that might be worth experimenting with. Really seems like you could get thinner lines with these than with a brush:
https://www.jetpens.com/blog/the-bes...ng-pens/pt/436
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Old 09-24-20, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by scarlson
The Taylors used a roller for Jack's paint work, as seen at 12:00-14:54 in this video. In the video you can see Jack doing his famous box lining, but I imagine he could have used it for lug lining as well. For the tinier curves, I imagine they would have had to use a brush. He does mention they previously had a man do it with a brush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALNsQpCL8LY
Originally Posted by KenNC
I have seen several sources using the vintage ruling pen (aka drafting pen, draftsman's pen, technical pen), here is one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo9WwzsR7g
I am attempting to use one now to do some lug lining but am not near as proficient as the guy in the video. Knocked over my can of one-shot just yesterday, sigh.....
In poking around, I see there might be more modern, refillable, technical pens, something like that might be worth experimenting with. Really seems like you could get thinner lines with these than with a brush:
https://www.jetpens.com/blog/the-bes...ng-pens/pt/436
Many thanks for both of the videos...paticularly like the old school bike building vid...hand drilling the rims was a riot.
Ben
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Old 09-24-20, 10:28 AM
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Unless you have the requisite innate talent, and, are willing to spend years practicing, go with a pen. Maybe have a brush for back up. I tried both ways a few years back and there's no contest.

There were all sorts of mechanical gizmos in the old days that made pinstriping consistently possible for normal factory workers.
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Old 09-24-20, 12:06 PM
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I have seen a few brushed pin stripe/box lining jobs on safes, bikes and automobiles. When I looked closely, none were robot perfect (but very good), but that is part of the charm. It's kind of like calligraphy.
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Old 09-24-20, 12:07 PM
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That's it!. I have been trying to figure this out for a few years now. I always thought that it was a pinstrippers brush, but I tried it and had problems with line thickness. And it is far easier to place the brush into the inside corner of the lug rather than offset a little like in the pictures from @xiaoman1 above.

I got so frustrated on my wife's Panasonic that a bought a paint pen and put some ham fisted thick lug lining on it that I wasn't too proud of.

The drafting ink pen is the trick. Thin it so the paint flows. I have one somewhere around the house. Now to find it.
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Old 09-24-20, 12:36 PM
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Yeah the second video was a revelation. I too have a pen from BITD during my early college years prior to calculators and long before CAD. I might even know where to look!
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Old 09-24-20, 01:26 PM
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The Kemper Fluid Writer is the pin stripping tool of choice for many of my colleagues. It come in 2 sizes. It helps to use pin stripping paint because it has more pigment for better coverage in one pass. Another trick is to round with emery (sandpaper) the tip so the edge is not so sharp and won't dig into the painted surface of the tube.

The paint doesn't start to flow until the tip touches a surface. It's magic!

It is helpful to think about how to erase a little blob or slightly too wide a line. I do this a variety of ways including with a toothpick or a paper towel dipped in paint thinner. Sometimes my finger is supporting the paper towel and sometimes it is some kind of pointed object.

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Old 09-24-20, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dweenk
I have seen a few brushed pin stripe/box lining jobs on safes, bikes and automobiles. When I looked closely, none were robot perfect (but very good), but that is part of the charm. It's kind of like calligraphy.
True, but you'll get plenty of charm with a pen too, whether you want it or not!
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Old 09-24-20, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
The Kemper Fluid Writer is the pin stripping tool of choice for many of my colleagues. It come in 2 sizes. It helps to use pin stripping paint because it has more pigment for better coverage in one pass. Another trick is to round with emery (sandpaper) the tip so the edge is not so sharp and won't dig into the painted surface of the tube.

The paint doesn't start to flow until the tip touches a surface. It's magic!

It is helpful to think about how to erase a little blob or slightly too wide a line. I do this a variety of ways including with a toothpick or a paper towel dipped in paint thinner. Sometimes my finger is supporting the paper towel and sometimes it is some kind of pointed object.

I have never seen that type of ink pen, do you know if they were used for drafting?
I remembered that I have something similar that was used for lettering with ink....made by Kohinoor, went to the studio, and dug them out. It's been a while since I looked at them but they're pretty neat, different nib sizes as well as type sizes.
I will try them on my next stripping job...tired of having to cut the ends off of paint pens to get a finner line.
Thanks for jarring my memory, Ben

Yeah, I know I still use fountain pens, drafting 314's and trace to think...AutoCad and Rhino later.

Last edited by xiaoman1; 09-24-20 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 09-24-20, 06:48 PM
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I have been really happy with some lug linings I've done using ultra-fine paint pens. I know my limits, so they have not been offset from the lugs like those shown on the green bike at top.
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Old 09-24-20, 07:13 PM
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I have a Leroy set as well as Rapidograph drafting pens in storage. Come to think of it, I also have my Omega enlarger and complete darkroom set-up there as well...... I'm so glad cycling has not yet digitized.

Nice little sketch, by the way...

Originally Posted by xiaoman1

Yeah, I know I still use fountain pens, drafting 314's and trace to think...AutoCad and Rhino later.
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Old 09-24-20, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
I have a Leroy set as well as Rapidograph drafting pens in storage. Come to think of it, I also have my Omega enlarger and complete darkroom set-up there as well...... I'm so glad cycling has not yet digitized.

Nice little sketch, by the way...
branko,
What no Bessler to go along with the Omega? Nikkor or Leitz?
Don't be surprised if/when virtual cycling comes into vogue, better on the knees and you can wear the yellow jersey at the end of every leg and stand on the podium at the end of the
TdF.
...BTW thanks for the compliment.
Best, Ben
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Old 09-25-20, 10:51 AM
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The first vid is that John Lennon 11-26?
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Old 09-25-20, 05:00 PM
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I used a paint marker thingy- I did the head and seat lugs. Sometime a few months/a year later I did the BB and it was literally RIGHT after I finished that I figured out that I could cut the tip to get a more fine point...
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Old 09-25-20, 06:41 PM
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I believe this is Keith Anderson’s go to tool for lining and cutout filling.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
The Kemper Fluid Writer is the pin stripping tool of choice for many of my colleagues. It come in 2 sizes. It helps to use pin stripping paint because it has more pigment for better coverage in one pass. Another trick is to round with emery (sandpaper) the tip so the edge is not so sharp and won't dig into the painted surface of the tube.

The paint doesn't start to flow until the tip touches a surface. It's magic!

It is helpful to think about how to erase a little blob or slightly too wide a line. I do this a variety of ways including with a toothpick or a paper towel dipped in paint thinner. Sometimes my finger is supporting the paper towel and sometimes it is some kind of pointed object.

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Old 09-25-20, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa
By hand and with a brush, would be my guess. I used to pin stripe my paint jobs on motorcycles and I used a proper striping brush and Quick Shot enamel pin striping paint. I think, it has been many years since I even thought about those days.
I have a early 70's bike with I am sure is freehand striping. Impressive. A lost art.
There was a car striper who was around here and retired probably a decade ago. I watched him once, was very fast.
I'm sure the skill allowed the speed.
Probably spent the most time mixing color and obtaining the correct consistency of the paint.
I watched but was not able to decode.
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Old 09-25-20, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
The Kemper Fluid Writer is the pin stripping tool of choice for many of my colleagues. It come in 2 sizes. It helps to use pin stripping paint because it has more pigment for better coverage in one pass. Another trick is to round with emery (sandpaper) the tip so the edge is not so sharp and won't dig into the painted surface of the tube.

The paint doesn't start to flow until the tip touches a surface. It's magic!

It is helpful to think about how to erase a little blob or slightly too wide a line. I do this a variety of ways including with a toothpick or a paper towel dipped in paint thinner. Sometimes my finger is supporting the paper towel and sometimes it is some kind of pointed object.

Originally Posted by tyler_fred
I believe this is Keith Anderson’s go to tool for lining and cutout filling.
I bought a set today and can't wait to try them out!
Glad they were mentioned, I also found out that they were used by ceramicists to line their work before firing.
Best, Ben
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Old 09-25-20, 10:23 PM
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Joe Bell in San Diego used these pens for my restoration. Lines around lugs and badges look great.
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Old 09-26-20, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
I have a early 70's bike with I am sure is freehand striping. Impressive. A lost art.
There was a car striper who was around here and retired probably a decade ago. I watched him once, was very fast.
I'm sure the skill allowed the speed.
Probably spent the most time mixing color and obtaining the correct consistency of the paint.
I watched but was not able to decode.
I think the hardest part to pin, would be the ornate scrolled lugs like you would find on Mercian and Hetchins frames..those curly lugs would be a nightmare for me to detail.
Best, Ben

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Old 09-26-20, 11:23 AM
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When I was getting my Bill Hurlow frame in 1974 in England (Bill's workshop was in Herne Bay not that far from Canterbury), I had to go to Broma's the frame painting company in London to pick it up. They painted a lot of different brands in the London area. While I was waiting to get my frame wrapped, I was able to watch the pin striper lug line a Hetchins. She was amazingly fast at it. I'm not positive of my memory but I think I remember her using a Sword Striping brush. That is the kind that has a wide body but a small tip so it can hold a supply of paint in the bristles so the striper doesn't have to keep dipping the brush in the paint to reload. The amount of time she took on each fancy lug was only a few minutes. Of course she does it every day all day long. I can do a decent job but to get it right it takes me a long time. She must have been 20 to 40 times faster than what I can do.
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Old 09-26-20, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
When I was getting my Bill Hurlow frame in 1974 in England (Bill's workshop was in Herne Bay not that far from Canterbury), I had to go to Broma's the frame painting company in London to pick it up. They painted a lot of different brands in the London area. While I was waiting to get my frame wrapped, I was able to watch the pin striper lug line a Hetchins. She was amazingly fast at it. I'm not positive of my memory but I think I remember her using a Sword Striping brush. That is the kind that has a wide body but a small tip so it can hold a supply of paint in the bristles so the striper doesn't have to keep dipping the brush in the paint to reload. The amount of time she took on each fancy lug was only a few minutes. Of course she does it every day all day long. I can do a decent job but to get it right it takes me a long time. She must have been 20 to 40 times faster than what I can do.
I guess that's why it isn't done very much anymore.....just like vinyl decals.....
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