A 1973 Raleigh Grand Sports Project
10-20-20, 08:24 PM
#26
Senior Member
Both of my Super Courses ('73 & '74) are 23.5 inch frames and have 57cm top tubes. The Internationals (both '74s) are 22.5 inch and have proportionally shorter 56 cm top tubes. So no luck on all of them having the same top tube.
10-21-20, 05:20 AM
#27
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Bikes: In USA; 73 Raleigh Super Course dingle speed, 72 Raleigh Gran Sport SS, 72 Geoffry Butler, 81 Centurion Pro-Tour, 74 Gugie Grandier Sportier
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10-21-20, 06:24 AM
#28
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The GS and the Competition are firmly linked in my mind - I forget who it was that pointed out that the Gran Sport shown in the 1972 Raleigh catalog is actually a ‘71 Competition in the white and lagoon blue livery of the Carlton racing team. Look closely at the picture and you’ll probably agree..
10-21-20, 03:24 PM
#29
Senior Member
My distillation of Carlton/Raleigh stories is that the nice bikes have a Carlton decal.
And perhaps I can ask here about the "trail" of my '73 GS. My crude measures of 35-40mm let me think this is a "low trail" bike. Anybody know if that is the case? Choice of wheels and tires alters trail some but in general, is this a low trail bike? I intend to put my new Nitto front rack and Acorn Med Bag on this bike and I understand that low trail is good for such things.
And perhaps I can ask here about the "trail" of my '73 GS. My crude measures of 35-40mm let me think this is a "low trail" bike. Anybody know if that is the case? Choice of wheels and tires alters trail some but in general, is this a low trail bike? I intend to put my new Nitto front rack and Acorn Med Bag on this bike and I understand that low trail is good for such things.
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10-21-20, 05:35 PM
#30
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@gugie is probably the one to answer that, as he owns around half the GS's in the continental US, and has done lots of work on them.
Gran(d) Sport(s) trail will probably vary from year to year, fortnight to fortnight, maybe even day of the week. The ones I have are probably around 40mm of trail, so @Classtime 's guesstimate is pretty good. I've done 650b conversions and frame builds between 30-45mm for bikes that will be front loaded, e.g. with loaded handlebar bag, so that's a good candidate. I typically rerake forks to get the trail down in this range. Never had to on a GS, but I always measure just to make sure.
My Grander Sportier has a lot of frame mods: replaced rear bits for vertical dropouts, cantilever posts, internal wiring for generator lights, and all the standard tiddly bits, plus a front rack:
Without spending money on the frame, just bolted on a Nitto Mark's rack and ran a 5 speed Sturmey Archer hub on this one.
Jeff has seen my Pimp Eroica GS at the Pallazo degli Eroica. No front rack/bag, but easily added:
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10-23-20, 06:37 PM
#31
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After a couple of sleepless nights fretting over the drivetrain issues and wondering if I made a mistake taking on this project, I will sleep well tonight.
Thoughts that kept me up:
-Did I screw up the chain line that badly when I spread the rear triangle?
-Is the spring shot on this old steel boat anchor Suntour GT?
-Is the right flange to locknut distance on my Mavic 500 hub too great for this Suntour to reach?
-Are the Synchro shifters incompatible with the rear derailleur?
-I've never had this much effort into a POS and have it continue to be a POS.
Last night after another test ride, my wife asked how it went, "Is it fast?". I complained about the chain.
Two POS spliced together.
Today, I picked up. PC850 at REI and I used the entire length. (That surprised me because I'm using a full PC870 on my Trek 620 with its 47cm chain stays.) It works well enough now that I'm contemplating a long Saturday on it. I'm also eager to see what these Pasela Protites are all about.
The bar tape has been on 4 other bikes.
Thoughts that kept me up:
-Did I screw up the chain line that badly when I spread the rear triangle?
-Is the spring shot on this old steel boat anchor Suntour GT?
-Is the right flange to locknut distance on my Mavic 500 hub too great for this Suntour to reach?
-Are the Synchro shifters incompatible with the rear derailleur?
-I've never had this much effort into a POS and have it continue to be a POS.
Last night after another test ride, my wife asked how it went, "Is it fast?". I complained about the chain.
Two POS spliced together.
Today, I picked up. PC850 at REI and I used the entire length. (That surprised me because I'm using a full PC870 on my Trek 620 with its 47cm chain stays.) It works well enough now that I'm contemplating a long Saturday on it. I'm also eager to see what these Pasela Protites are all about.
The bar tape has been on 4 other bikes.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
10-23-20, 07:39 PM
#32
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You did well!
Swapping out the OEM derailleurs was something that most people who actually rode these bikes is uber period correct.
Swapping out the OEM derailleurs was something that most people who actually rode these bikes is uber period correct.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
10-23-20, 08:11 PM
#33
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After a couple of sleepless nights fretting over the drivetrain issues and wondering if I made a mistake taking on this project, I will sleep well tonight.
Thoughts that kept me up:
-Did I screw up the chain line that badly when I spread the rear triangle?
-Is the spring shot on this old steel boat anchor Suntour GT?
-Is the right flange to locknut distance on my Mavic 500 hub too great for this Suntour to reach?
-Are the Synchro shifters incompatible with the rear derailleur?
-I've never had this much effort into a POS and have it continue to be a POS.
Last night after another test ride, my wife asked how it went, "Is it fast?". I complained about the chain.
Two POS spliced together.
Today, I picked up. PC850 at REI and I used the entire length. (That surprised me because I'm using a full PC870 on my Trek 620 with its 47cm chain stays.) It works well enough now that I'm contemplating a long Saturday on it. I'm also eager to see what these Pasela Protites are all about.
The bar tape has been on 4 other bikes.
Thoughts that kept me up:
-Did I screw up the chain line that badly when I spread the rear triangle?
-Is the spring shot on this old steel boat anchor Suntour GT?
-Is the right flange to locknut distance on my Mavic 500 hub too great for this Suntour to reach?
-Are the Synchro shifters incompatible with the rear derailleur?
-I've never had this much effort into a POS and have it continue to be a POS.
Last night after another test ride, my wife asked how it went, "Is it fast?". I complained about the chain.
Two POS spliced together.
Today, I picked up. PC850 at REI and I used the entire length. (That surprised me because I'm using a full PC870 on my Trek 620 with its 47cm chain stays.) It works well enough now that I'm contemplating a long Saturday on it. I'm also eager to see what these Pasela Protites are all about.
The bar tape has been on 4 other bikes.
2. Can't tell from picture. Will have to test-ride. Not the worst thing in the world if you need to swap springs or RDs
3. Doubt it. Sun Tour was generous on the range. Is a matter of proper rear wheel spacing, BB spindle selection, adjusting angle on FD and stops on the rear.
4. Not familiar with Syncros. I don't see any indication they're indexed, so, as with the rear derailleur, is a matter of the range they can move. If they don't have it, swap out for Sun Tour and you should be good.
5. You can do it. I've never gotten to ride a PX-10, but I have put in many rides on a 71-ish Fuji Finest (which aside from more modestly relaxed frame angles and I assume a slightly heavier frame seems very much designed to clone a PX-10), and after my best previous bike being a '78 Raleigh Super Course - the Fuji was night and day a better riding bike. The next bike I got after my restart was a duplicate Super Course, and as great as it seemed when I was 18 - 22, it didn't measure up. I only bring this up because a Grand Sports is little different from that Super Course - aside from stays and head tube being 531 on the Grand Sports. I've since acquired most Raleighs of that era, and what I'm getting to in a long-winded way is that, if you're comparing this to your PX-10, it won't be favorable. Once you get all the mechanical matters dialed in, you'll have a fine bicycle for most riding. However, it isn't going to accelerate or climb, or nimbly navigate rapid turns like a PX-10.
Yeah - I'd consider a new, or a much cleaner chain. Bear in mind that worn freewheel and chainring cogs can cause issues with an incompatibly worn chain.
Pasela Pro-Tites are a slight compromise of a tire. They're not what I would call performance, but they aren't awful either. If you're going to be on rough pavement, or gravel, they are one of your better choices without breaking the bank, imo. I have them on my '75 Raleigh Competition that I was intending to take to Cino this year (it didn't work out). They haven't done poorly on pavement, but they aren't quite the equal of Grand Bois or Compass (or possibly others which I haven't ridden).
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Last edited by USAZorro; 10-23-20 at 08:17 PM.
10-23-20, 09:27 PM
#34
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Most of the time.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
11-12-20, 08:16 AM
#35
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Here's the thing(s):
1. That rear derailleur cable guide is rediculous
2. I could have used the original Simplex front derailleur which I think worked fine even with a small crack but I didn't have the matching shifters or rear derailleur.
3. The Suntour 7 front derailleur which has a cable stop has a very wide cage and the Nervar crankset has very little room between the crank arm and the big ring and five speeds should not have such close tolerances.
4. The Competition G. S. had clamp on derailleur guides and I had one sitting around.
5. My pawn shop Dremel that I've had for 30+ years makes some wierd crackling sounds and sometimes spits out some bits of plastic which is a little scary but it still works and I have a bunch of disks.
Rediculous
Better but...
Needs some clean up.
Got a fancy Campy hanger.
There is room for this cage.
Matchy matchy.
1. That rear derailleur cable guide is rediculous
2. I could have used the original Simplex front derailleur which I think worked fine even with a small crack but I didn't have the matching shifters or rear derailleur.
3. The Suntour 7 front derailleur which has a cable stop has a very wide cage and the Nervar crankset has very little room between the crank arm and the big ring and five speeds should not have such close tolerances.
4. The Competition G. S. had clamp on derailleur guides and I had one sitting around.
5. My pawn shop Dremel that I've had for 30+ years makes some wierd crackling sounds and sometimes spits out some bits of plastic which is a little scary but it still works and I have a bunch of disks.
Rediculous
Better but...
Needs some clean up.
Got a fancy Campy hanger.
There is room for this cage.
Matchy matchy.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
02-18-21, 12:20 PM
#36
Full Member
I just finished setting up the mechanicals on my 73 Grand Sports, I decided that since the simplex derailleur was the only part that was original or not broken, I swapped the whole setup for a Raleigh branded suntour V-GT rear and compe-v front with suntour power shifters, can't wait for warmer weather to try it out.
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