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Axle diameter problem?

Old 11-22-20, 11:08 AM
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robbyville
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Axle diameter problem?

Finally getting some parts to build up my old Derosa SLX circa 1990-92 or thereabouts. Had settled on some mid - late '90's Campy, but when I got to wheels I figured I would use and extra set of Industry 9 I25's that I have with Torch hubs which I love. I believe I will have the clearance with tires and such BUT when I started to play with it, it looks like the axle may be too large in diameter to fit in the drop outs. Did axle diameters increase as an industry standard? Guess I didn't realize that and will now need to buy new wheels to match. The old ones are an old Shimano 600 with 8spd freehub.

Thanks!
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Old 11-22-20, 12:06 PM
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The 600 Ultegra are 10mm diameter axles. Next step up is 12mm, then 15mm. Increasing the axle diameter increases its stiffness. Larger axle diameters, usually in conjunction with thru-axle technology, are common practice to stiffen the axle-fork interface on modern bicycles equipped with disc brakes, as it decreases disc rotor deflection and subsequent pad rub.
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Old 11-22-20, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The 600 Ultegra are 10mm diameter axles. Next step up is 12mm, then 15mm. Increasing the axle diameter increases its stiffness. Larger axle diameters, usually in conjunction with thru-axle technology, are common practice to stiffen the axle-fork interface on modern bicycles equipped with disc brakes, as it decreases disc rotor deflection and subsequent pad rub.
Well I guess that's that, will need to get new wheels after all. Shame I just got a campy driver for the spare set! I didn't try too hard but these definitely don't seem to want to fit into the rear dropouts.
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Old 11-22-20, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Finally getting some parts to build up my old Derosa SLX circa 1990-92 or thereabouts. Had settled on some mid - late '90's Campy, but when I got to wheels I figured I would use and extra set of Industry 9 I25's that I have with Torch hubs which I love. I believe I will have the clearance with tires and such BUT when I started to play with it, it looks like the axle may be too large in diameter to fit in the drop outs. Did axle diameters increase as an industry standard? Guess I didn't realize that and will now need to buy new wheels to match. The old ones are an old Shimano 600 with 8spd freehub.

Thanks!
90s road bikes were 9mm x 100 up front, 10mm x 130 out back.

There are 9mm endcaps for Torch hubs if you currently have 12 or 15 up front.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/industry-nine-torch-series-endcap-kit?skid=NIN000M-ROAD-S9MMFROCL&CMP_SKU=NIN000M&MER=0406&CSPID=0914&mr:trackingCode=C0D7AEAA-3BCE-E811-80FE-0050569428E8&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=m&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=276233890475&mr:keyword=&mr:matc h=&mr:tid=aud-898759958102la-351173238851&mrloc=9030004&mr:iloc=&mr:store=&mr:filter=351173238851&CMP_ID=PLA_GMm014&CSPID=0914& utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&k_clickid=_k_CjwKCAiAtej9BRAvEiwA0UAWXshdwDih1OLZKfE6lsxlIM4TwU2Vsn VELMQM8BLTG813QEylwsd_IxoCM88QAvD_BwE_k_&utm_id=go_cmp-1442592127_adg-55736016949_ad-276233890475_aud-898759958102la-351173238851_dev-m_ext-_prd-NIN000M-ROAD-S9MMFROCL&gclid=CjwKCAiAtej9BRAvEiwA0UAWXshdwDih1OLZKfE6lsxlIM4TwU2VsnVELMQM8BLTG813QEylwsd_IxoCM88Q AvD_BwE#


I don't know if they have them for 10x130 rear, though.

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Old 11-22-20, 01:11 PM
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Very cool thank you! I'll check around to see if they have them in 10mm. Would certainly prefer that to another set of wheels, especially since these are so nice and act as my spares for the Speedvagen.
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Old 11-22-20, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Very cool thank you! I'll check around to see if they have them in 10mm. Would certainly prefer that to another set of wheels, especially since these are so nice and act as my spares for the Speedvagen.
I don't know, but I have a feeling the rear hubs are too wide to set up 130.
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Old 11-22-20, 01:17 PM
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This should be an easy thing measure with a pair of calipers but looking at their website is seem they might be larger. Traditionally axles are 10mm rear and 9 front.

Next question is are those wheels designed for disc brakes or rim brakes?

https://www.industrynine.com/
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Old 11-22-20, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
This should be an easy thing measure with a pair of calipers but looking at their website is seem they might be larger. Traditionally axles are 10mm rear and 9 front.

Next question is are those wheels designed for disc brakes or rim brakes?

https://www.industrynine.com/
The wheels are rim brake variety. They act as my spare wheels for the Speedvagen but I was hoping to move them to the DeRosa. I had thought that since the DeRosa was able to handle Shimano 8spd which I believe was also 130mm that it would be able to handle the Campy driver since they did not increase the length between 8-11spds. I was hoping to simply change the Shimano freehub to a Campy one which I have received and installed. When I tried to test fit the wheel quickly, the width did not seem to be an issue but the axle diameter was.
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Old 11-22-20, 01:44 PM
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Do other wheels fit?



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Old 11-22-20, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
The wheels are rim brake variety. They act as my spare wheels for the Speedvagen but I was hoping to move them to the DeRosa. I had thought that since the DeRosa was able to handle Shimano 8spd which I believe was also 130mm that it would be able to handle the Campy driver since they did not increase the length between 8-11spds. I was hoping to simply change the Shimano freehub to a Campy one which I have received and installed. When I tried to test fit the wheel quickly, the width did not seem to be an issue but the axle diameter was.
So the wheels have QR levers, not thru axles?

And the rear wheel axles seem too fat to fit in the dropouts? The front wheel is fine?

Are they horizontal rear dropouts or vertical?

Are the axle parts that sit in the dropouts threaded or smooth?

Maybe pics?
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Old 11-22-20, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
The wheels are rim brake variety. They act as my spare wheels for the Speedvagen but I was hoping to move them to the DeRosa. I had thought that since the DeRosa was able to handle Shimano 8spd which I believe was also 130mm that it would be able to handle the Campy driver since they did not increase the length between 8-11spds. I was hoping to simply change the Shimano freehub to a Campy one which I have received and installed. When I tried to test fit the wheel quickly, the width did not seem to be an issue but the axle diameter was.
On your Speedvagen, what type of rear dropouts does it have?

And could you post a photo of the axles on the Industry 9 hubs?

If the Speedvagen is a rim brake road bike I concur that it should be 130mm spacing from the inside of dropout to dropout. The part of the axle that protrudes past the end caps (or cones & locknuts whatever the case may be) could be ever so slightly too thick. This is why a few photos of the dropout & the axle ends would be enlightening....

I concur that checking with Industry 9 is a good idea as well.
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Old 11-22-20, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
So the wheels have QR levers, not thru axles?

And the rear wheel axles seem too fat to fit in the dropouts? The front wheel is fine?

Are they horizontal rear dropouts or vertical?

Are the axle parts that sit in the dropouts threaded or smooth?

Maybe pics?
Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
On your Speedvagen, what type of rear dropouts does it have?

And could you post a photo of the axles on the Industry 9 hubs?

If the Speedvagen is a rim brake road bike I concur that it should be 130mm spacing from the inside of dropout to dropout. The part of the axle that protrudes past the end caps (or cones & locknuts whatever the case may be) could be ever so slightly too thick. This is why a few photos of the dropout & the axle ends would be enlightening....

I concur that checking with Industry 9 is a good idea as well.
The Derosa dropouts are horizontal, all parts are smooth. The Speedvagen dropouts are vertical. I've attached pics below. Width does not seem to be a challenge just the diameter front and back. Bummer. seems like the front won't be a problem with new caps, I emailed Industry Nine to see if they have 10mm caps for the rear. I also put in a pic of the fork freshly chromed! Still looking for a good quality campy group to finish the bike off (and perhaps wheels too)





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Old 11-22-20, 03:40 PM
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That front hub should have 9mm endcaps already.

A lot of aluminum endcaps do seem slightly fatter than threaded axle ends in my experience.

If it's just a tight squeeze, which I've found on some Rolfs I have, I just force em in there.

Another issue I've encountered on used frames is that sometimes the dropouts get squished closed a bit with rough handling, and will be tight at the opening, but a looser fit when pulled back into the dropouts.
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Old 11-22-20, 03:46 PM
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That fork dropout almost looks squished in the pic. Try putting the endcap into the top of the dropout with the wheel outside the fork, does it go in?

Check the rear dropout from front to back also.

I had a pinarello whose rear dropout had gotten pinched in a bit. I just put a pipe over the dropout/hanger and gently coaxed it open a bit.

Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 11-22-20 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 11-22-20, 03:53 PM
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robbyville Thanks for providing photos.

It appears that the aluminum protrusion both front and rear is ever so slightly too thick making them not want to slide into neither the front, nor the rear dropouts. This is interesting. Now might be a good time to get that metric digital dial caliper and take some measurements, comparing with opening width between the parallel faces of the front and rear drops on both the Speedvagen and the DeRosa SLX (in units of, say 0.01mm or .001” take your pick). You could gain a wee bit of rear dropout clearance on the rear dropouts just by scraping the remaining paint away & down to the chrome plating that remains.

For the front wheel, Just by looking, it really appears as if the “protrusion” part of the aluminum axle is too thick to clear the thick chrome plating of your DeRosa fork ends. If it were me I would consider filing the chrome off of the notch in the forkends for a minute, but then stop myself. It would be less destructive and almost as easy to disassemble the front axle and chuck the aluminum axle in a drill press or metal lathe chuck and grind a tiny bit of material using a carbide cutter or grindstone. If you you tell Industry 9 about the issue and tell them precisely how far out of tolerance the “protrusions” are for your application, they may then direct you to send them in to them and they can make the modifications on a metal lathe or perhaps send you an alternate axle set that will be plug-n-play for you.

it would be a shame to not get those Industry 9’s to work great with your DeRosa.

Last edited by masi61; 11-22-20 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 11-22-20, 04:22 PM
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Thanks folks, will definitely get the calipers and check. If I can coax it in that would be awesome. I'm in no hurry so if it's just a matter of getting new caps and they offer said caps that would be my best option. These wheels are great and I've always liked the I9 hubs on my road bikes. I've used many and didn't realize that the end caps may have changed diameter but if it's close and I can work it out that would be my preference over buying another set of wheels for this bike.
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Old 11-22-20, 04:24 PM
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Both dropouts look like the mouth end is slightly narrower. See if the axle ends will fit by sliding them laterally into the top of the front dropout and back of the rear dropout from the outside of the dropouts. On the rear dropout, don't forget to set the adjuster screw as far back as possible. If you can do this, the mouth ends of the dropouts are slightly pinched. The axle end for the front hub doesn't look so oversize that it's the next size up.

Last edited by T-Mar; 11-23-20 at 12:51 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 11-23-20, 09:20 AM
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I agree with T-Mar, the dropouts are ever so slightly squished. this is not unusual. It can be fixed with a large screwdriver, just bend carefully.

Mark Petry
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Old 11-23-20, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Both dropouts look like the mouth end is slightly narrower. See if the axle ends will fit by sliding them laterally into the top of the front dropout and back of the rear dropout from the outside of the dropouts. On the rear dropout, don't forget to set the adjuster screw as far back as possible. If you can do this, the mouth ends of the dropouts are slightly pinched. The axle end for the front hub doesn't look so oversize that it's the next size up.
Originally Posted by mpetry912 View Post
I agree with T-Mar, the dropouts are ever so slightly squished. this is not unusual. It can be fixed with a large screwdriver, just bend carefully.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA
Indeed you were all quite right thank you! I haven't done the rear wheel yet but as you mentioned I put the wheel in slightly differently after viewing the pics and had no problems. See pics below but I think this is going to work out really nicely if I have the same result in the back! I will run the wheels tubeless as I always do. I think the black rim with silver brake track will accentuate the bike nicely. Still need to source a good quality Campy drive train in good shape. If anyone has any idea beyond the usual ebay which I check fairly regularly I'm all ears!


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Old 11-23-20, 09:37 PM
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Funny how it sometimes take a picture to help you along. I was so nervous before thinking that these wouldn’t fit. Thanks again!


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