Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

5 Speed - Future Wheel Build

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

5 Speed - Future Wheel Build

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-11-21 | 09:56 PM
  #1  
Thread Starter
Full Member
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 334
Likes: 148
5 Speed - Future Wheel Build

So - I purchase a Flying Dutchman Bike, a late 70's era 10-speed sold in Denver (Denver bike shop had them manufactured in France and then imported them here). Pictures below.

It is, based on further review of the frame, a lower end, most likely hi-ten steel bike. However, it is in amazing condition. I mean, amazing for a 40+ odd year-old frame. It uses Simplex for the drive train, which includes friction down tube shifters.

That being said, the wheels are heavy steel wheels, which while I like for the fact they are originals, a pair of Velocity 27" rims, with some lighter weight hubs would be an awesome addition. However, it is a bit more difficult to find hubs that are not "Freehub" vs. Freewheel". A couple of questions:

(A) Are there any 5 speed freehub casettes out there that I could put on a modern hub designed for freehub cassettes? A lot of the weight of the bike comes from the wheels, and if I do ride this bike, would not mind keeping the steel wheels inside because they are relics.
(B) Since it is a friction shifter, can the Simplex rear derailleur coupled with the more modern 7/8 speed freehub casette work?
(C) Should I even try to use this bike, or given it is almost untouched, make it a wall piece in the future?

Fascinating Odds & Ends:
The fork of the crown was covered in plastic to make it look chromed. I did not realize this until I got it home, and further inspected it. Part of me wants to rip it off, and make the fork 100% steel. But another part of me makes me want to keep it, because I am fairly certain that this may be the best representation of this bike, which has Denver roots to boot there is in existence. I would love it if someone knew how to ID the steel.







Last edited by Het Volk; 01-11-21 at 10:01 PM.
Het Volk is offline  
Reply
Old 01-11-21 | 10:55 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
5 Anniversary
 
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,157
Likes: 835
From: Eastern Shore, MD

Bikes: Road ready: 1993 Koga Miyata City Liner Touring Hybrid, 1989 Centurion Sport DLX, "I Blame GP" Bridgestone CB-1. Projects: Yea, I got a problem....

Buy a set of these and ride off into the sunset.

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=739

They also come in 700c and CR-13 skinny 700c versions. I've easily got over a 1000 miles on a 700c set. depending how "French" this bike is you might have to buy a new freewheel, which are available in 7 speeds. Yes there are 120mm 5 speed free hub rear hubs available but pricy.

https://www.hubjub.co.uk/sunxcd-120-...hub-5204-p.asp

I would assume that the original derailleur will shift across as many speeds as you want, but that gear is not particularly durable, so If your going to put miles on this bike you might want to swap out for some more durable components, and save all the original parts for a later restoration for display.

Last edited by bark_eater; 01-12-21 at 07:06 AM. Reason: add a zero
bark_eater is online now  
Reply
Old 01-11-21 | 11:19 PM
  #3  
thook's Avatar
(rhymes with spook)
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 749
From: Winslow, AR

Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3

just if you're interested, i have two sets of 27" wheels i'm not going to use for anything. both from early 80's and in real good shape. both do use freewheels, though. anyway, if you are interested, send a PM and i'll give you specs on them
thook is offline  
Reply
Old 01-11-21 | 11:33 PM
  #4  
Thread Starter
Full Member
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 334
Likes: 148
Originally Posted by bark_eater
Buy a set of these and ride off into the sunset.

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=739

They also come in 700c and CR-13 skinny 700c versions. I've easily got over a 100 miles on a 700c set. depending how "French" this bike is you might have to buy a new freewheel, which are available in 7 speeds. Yes there are 120mm 5 speed free hub rear hubs available but pricy.

https://www.hubjub.co.uk/sunxcd-120-...hub-5204-p.asp

I would assume that the original derailleur will shift across as many speeds as you want, but that gear is not particularly durable, so If your going to put miles on this bike you might want to swap out for some more durable components, and save all the original parts for a later restoration for display.
A couple things:
  • I like those 120MM Freehubs, but this bike is if anything, a 126MM rear spacing, which I could just make fit into a modern 130MM hub.
  • i think the Sun CR18 rims are a great idea, if I want a 5 speed.
  • However - based on your comment: if I wanted to, could I run a 7/8 speed cassette with a modern freehub with the Simplex derailleur? You mention it might be problematic, curious why you think it would fail?
Het Volk is offline  
Reply
Old 01-11-21 | 11:42 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
5 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 645
Likes: 419
It is a beautiful bright yellow bike. Who cares if it was a bottom of the line 10 speed? The weakest component on that bike is the SIMPLEX rear derailleur. Unless you're gonna ride in the rain, I wouldn't worry about the steel wheels. You have centerpull caliper brakes which if you were to install new fresh replacement KOOL-STOP salmon color brake pads should give you excellent braking except possibly during a heavy rainstorm. As for the SIMPLEX rear derailleur, yes it is inferior junk compared to anything from Shimano or Maeda SUNTOUR but hey if the SIMPLEX is in good shape and it probably is, will function reasonably acceptable for an inferior European rear derailleur. You can within thirty minutes install a SUNTOUR or SHIMANO rear derailleur if the SIMPLEX becomes problematic. A very simple and inexpensive upgrade should you need to do that. Keep it simple, why change everything if it does function adequately. Nothing is wrong with a 10 speed with friction shifting and adequate range of low to high gearing on the five of the freewheel. Hey, if the existing freewheel does not offer you the RANGE that you think you'd need, there are certainly thousands of used freewheels available with a RANGE that makes everyone happy. There are also still hundreds of NOS (new old stock) freewheels that might offer the RANGE you would want. The good news is that even NOS(new old stock) freewheels are relatively inexpensive! Used freewheels are next to nothing in cost. You can easily also find a used set of 27 x 1 1/4 (630mm twenty seven inch ...32-630) aluminum wheels from some mid seventies to mid eighties TEN or even TWELVE SPEED..................you don't need a top of the line donor bike from 1983 -1984 as even the bottom line offerings by that time featured aluminum 27 inch wheels........................Don't get caught up in the craze to change everything. Nothing is wrong with 27 (630mm) wheels, and you can still get tires from all the major online bike shops. Heck, that nice yellow bike that you have there has a cottered crank. After the rear derailleur, that would be the first thing to improve upon. I'd rather have a one piece Ashtabula American style crank than anything with a cotter crank because of the hassle associated with getting the cotter right. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it may apply here. The great news is that today it is almost really simple to change to a modern solution without cottered crank arms, and a superb cartridge bottom bracket. You didn't have that solution available in 1975. Good news again, that modern solution is relatively inexpensive if you source the parts and do the installation yourself. Don't get caught up in the idiotic craze to change everything and attempt to make it lose tremendous weight. Practical changes for enjoyable dependable riding is one thing but trying to change such an old bike into something it really can never be is just beyond silly. Make practical changes to make it enjoyable for you to ride. Nobody else matters! You aren't trying to impress the vintage Colnago, and classic Eddy Merckx riders. Save your money once you do that. You can always spend money on another cool bicycle for your collection...........classic-vintage "cool" or modern "cool"...............you are the judge so whatever you think is always right if it makes you happy & you have fun with it.
It is a great looking bike. That Yellow color is beautiful & classic and it can be seen from a mile away. Have fun with it. Just like with vintage automobiles, it doesn't have to be a Rolls Royce or a Ferrari to be a nice classic that people enjoy seeing today.
Vintage Schwinn is offline  
Reply
Old 01-11-21 | 11:44 PM
  #6  
thook's Avatar
(rhymes with spook)
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 749
From: Winslow, AR

Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3

the simplex derailleurs are made of delrin plastic. famous for destructing after years of aging

edit: somewhat contrary to what i just said and the others are saying. in my experience the rear delrin derailleurs seem to be more durable than the front. i've built a couple of bikes for a friend using the simplex; the front clamp always breaks, but the rears work fine for a good while. i think i still have one out in my box of stuff

Last edited by thook; 01-12-21 at 12:15 AM.
thook is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 02:16 AM
  #7  
randyjawa's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,567
Likes: 2,740
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Originally Posted by thook
the simplex derailleurs are made of delrin plastic. famous for destructing after years of aging

edit: somewhat contrary to what i just said and the others are saying. in my experience the rear delrin derailleurs seem to be more durable than the front. i've built a couple of bikes for a friend using the simplex; the front clamp always breaks, but the rears work fine for a good while. i think i still have one out in my box of stuff
Indeed, the Simplex front derailleur, any front Simplex derailleur that has Dupont's Delrin plastic, is more than prone to failure. Several, perhaps many, busted ones have come my way...




And the front derailleurs do NOT have to be old to be broken. This Canadian made Peugeot Super Sport's derailleur failed in the first few weeks of use (bought the bike from my boss back then so know a bit of the bike's history)...
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
randyjawa is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 03:16 AM
  #8  
thook's Avatar
(rhymes with spook)
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 749
From: Winslow, AR

Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3

even new? i did not know that. when i was putting a dawes galaxy together for my friend, i so wanted to do a restore best i could. i wasn't going to go as far as a repaint, but i went with the stronglight cottered crank and leotard pedals, gb bars and stem, brooks saddle and post, and....of course...the simplex derailleurs and shifters. all but the front derailleur made the build. i even tried to dismantle one FD with good parts (but broken clamp) to swap to a "good" clamp. still...that one broke, too. so, it got a suntour of some sort. vx, as i recall. delrin = destined for the trash bin....ha
thook is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 03:20 AM
  #9  
Moisture's Avatar
Drip, Drip.
5 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 194
From: Southern Ontario

Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1

- is the seat setup at your correct height?

- agree with the comment to ditch that simplex derailer. See if you can find an old suntour replacement.

- your current hub spacing is either 120 or 126mm. If you dont want the current 5 speed anymore, i suggest going for a 126mm freehub and installing a 7 speed.

- yes, your friction shifters and rear derailer will more than likely shift through extra gears just fine after you play around with the limit screws and maybe change out the shift lines.

- my suggestion is to NOT invest into a new wheelset for this bike. That 5 speed is totally sufficient and this bike simply does not have good enough parts otherwise.

- if your freehub is 126mm spacing, you can use a 6 or 7 speed freewheel on that current rim.
Moisture is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 10:19 AM
  #10  
Thread Starter
Full Member
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 334
Likes: 148
Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn
It is a beautiful bright yellow bike. Who cares if it was a bottom of the line 10 speed? The weakest component on that bike is the SIMPLEX rear derailleur. Unless you're gonna ride in the rain, I wouldn't worry about the steel wheels. You have centerpull caliper brakes which if you were to install new fresh replacement KOOL-STOP salmon color brake pads should give you excellent braking except possibly during a heavy rainstorm. As for the SIMPLEX rear derailleur, yes it is inferior junk compared to anything from Shimano or Maeda SUNTOUR but hey if the SIMPLEX is in good shape and it probably is, will function reasonably acceptable for an inferior European rear derailleur. You can within thirty minutes install a SUNTOUR or SHIMANO rear derailleur if the SIMPLEX becomes problematic. A very simple and inexpensive upgrade should you need to do that. Keep it simple, why change everything if it does function adequately. Nothing is wrong with a 10 speed with friction shifting and adequate range of low to high gearing on the five of the freewheel. Hey, if the existing freewheel does not offer you the RANGE that you think you'd need, there are certainly thousands of used freewheels available with a RANGE that makes everyone happy. There are also still hundreds of NOS (new old stock) freewheels that might offer the RANGE you would want. The good news is that even NOS(new old stock) freewheels are relatively inexpensive! Used freewheels are next to nothing in cost. You can easily also find a used set of 27 x 1 1/4 (630mm twenty seven inch ...32-630) aluminum wheels from some mid seventies to mid eighties TEN or even TWELVE SPEED..................you don't need a top of the line donor bike from 1983 -1984 as even the bottom line offerings by that time featured aluminum 27 inch wheels........................Don't get caught up in the craze to change everything. Nothing is wrong with 27 (630mm) wheels, and you can still get tires from all the major online bike shops. Heck, that nice yellow bike that you have there has a cottered crank. After the rear derailleur, that would be the first thing to improve upon. I'd rather have a one piece Ashtabula American style crank than anything with a cotter crank because of the hassle associated with getting the cotter right. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it may apply here. The great news is that today it is almost really simple to change to a modern solution without cottered crank arms, and a superb cartridge bottom bracket. You didn't have that solution available in 1975. Good news again, that modern solution is relatively inexpensive if you source the parts and do the installation yourself. Don't get caught up in the idiotic craze to change everything and attempt to make it lose tremendous weight. Practical changes for enjoyable dependable riding is one thing but trying to change such an old bike into something it really can never be is just beyond silly. Make practical changes to make it enjoyable for you to ride. Nobody else matters! You aren't trying to impress the vintage Colnago, and classic Eddy Merckx riders. Save your money once you do that. You can always spend money on another cool bicycle for your collection...........classic-vintage "cool" or modern "cool"...............you are the judge so whatever you think is always right if it makes you happy & you have fun with it.It is a great looking bike. That Yellow color is beautiful & classic and it can be seen from a mile away. Have fun with it. Just like with vintage automobiles, it doesn't have to be a Rolls Royce or a Ferrari to be a nice classic that people enjoy seeing today.
A couple of things:
  1. Thanks for the information on the components and the DuPont Derlin plastic. Sure enough, there is a crack on the front derailleur that seems it is going to require being replaced (will attach photos) The rear seems to be in okay shape, but if the front needs to be replaced, I assume, given the mechanical simplicity of front derailleurs that I can just use an old Shimano 105 that I have in my parts bin (correct).
  2. Rear Derailleur: If I want to swap out the rear, I have a Suntour that was on my Fuji America, that I could use....I guess I would just need to set limit screws properly.
  3. Wheels: if I do go down the path of swapping parts, at that point, why not make this a more modern 7/8 speed bike and add a new, lighter wheel set?

I guess the question is: Do I begin to swap parts, and if I do, lose the original bike as it was spec'd and offered over 40 years ago, but gain a more functional bike. Or, do I basically just hang this on my basement wall as kind of a relic and ode to a bygone era in Denver? I hi-ten bike with cheap components is not exactly like a mint condition Colnago. But, there is some local historical interest to this bike and Denver.




Het Volk is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 10:21 AM
  #11  
Moisture's Avatar
Drip, Drip.
5 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 194
From: Southern Ontario

Bikes: Trek Verve E bike, Felt Doctrine 4 XC, Opus Horizon Apex 1

Please excuse me for saying this, but it's just a low end hi tensile frame with cheap components.

Just enjoy the bike.
Moisture is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 10:32 AM
  #12  
Thread Starter
Full Member
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 334
Likes: 148
Originally Posted by Moisture
Please excuse me for saying this, but it's just a low end hi tensile frame with cheap components.

Just enjoy the bike.
Well -at the very least, it might be a good bike to experiment with on mixing and matching components.
Het Volk is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 12:33 PM
  #13  
thook's Avatar
(rhymes with spook)
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 749
From: Winslow, AR

Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3

ah, man...the real value in that dutchman is the novelty. much of that, if not all, is lost when you start swapping out and/or modernizing. granted, that front derailleur is an absolute no go. a suntour would be nice, but there are metal huret derailleurs that are quite inexpensive, function well, and would keep the quality of the french heritage. really, that and good brake pads are the only things keeping it from being functional and enjoyable. however, it is your bike.....of course
thook is offline  
Reply
Old 01-12-21 | 12:48 PM
  #14  
noobinsf's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,487
Likes: 1,553
From: Oakland, CA

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

It's a nice bike, but you will likely run into compatibility issues if you start trying to swap things out. Standards have simply changed since this was sold. I would follow others' advice to swap out the derailleurs to something cheap from Suntour to keep it functional, but otherwise just leave it as is. This kind of bike is perfect to start tinkering if you want to get into it, but I would limit that to a tear down and rebuild, not pursuing a bunch of changes. Preserve its charm, keep it alive!
noobinsf is offline  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.