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PX-10 Information Thread.

Old 01-18-21, 06:43 PM
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3alarmer
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PX-10 Information Thread.

.
...I just did a search, and there are seven pages of results for threads with PX-10 in the title. Which means there are a lot of them still around.
This thread is intended as some kind of central clearing house for information on modifying and/or restoring them. Not unlike the Centurion Ironman sticky thread.

Both of these frames were produced as affordable "real race" bikes, and in large numbers. They make an excellent platform for upgrades and personalization.

In that sense, they are similar. I know there's a lot of good info in the 7 pages of results listing the other threads. I'm hoping to attract some of the more interesting projects into one thread, for inspiration and sharing of opinions on what is and is not a functional upgrade. Also to share some information on what does and does not work well in the process, with some photos of the results and how they are accomplished. I just changed some stuff on one of mine, so I'll start.
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Old 01-18-21, 07:02 PM
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Stem, bar, derailleurs, wheels and tyres...

.
...the first one of these bikes I ever owned and rode hard, I managed to break the bar, where the relatively soft aluminum tore right next to the stem insertion. I was going slowly at the time, but even going slow, it was a real eye opener. For some years in the 1970's, at least in the United States, these were sold equipped with some stems that eventually failed. So at a minimum, I always replace the bar and stem on a PX-10 that comes into my possession. In the years when Simplex was big on Delrin, the front derailleur clamps are either cracked, or on their way to cracking. So the other thing I routinely replace is the front derailleur.

You can use a lot of different front derailleurs, but not everything out there will fit French metric Reynolds tubing in the clamp. Additionally, my experience trying to use a Campy Record front Mechanism led me to conclude that they often will not get close enough to the seat tube (even with the adjustment screw all the way out), to allow smooth shifting onto the interior ring of a Stronglight crank.

And you need something that will pull from the bottom, with an integral cable stop, if you want to continue using the Simplex cable guide on the bottom of the down tube. So I usually end up using one of several available Suntour front derailleur mechanisms. They are readily available used, shift flawlessly, and are relatively unobtrusive. (Photos to follow.)

The rear derailleurs made by Simplex in the years these PX-10's were made in the 60's-70's-80's work OK. They're a little less technically sophisticated, and a lot of them get broken at the upper pivot, by people trying to remove them improperly. They're not a bad product, just a little limited in range and maximum cog size...and a bit more delicate than some alternative replacements. (Suggestions to follow.)
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Old 01-18-21, 07:15 PM
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So anyway, here are some photos...

.
...this is a heavily modified, but not obnoxiously so, PX-10 in the randonneur school.
I don't know the year (I'm not very good with dating these bikes), but it's a frame that was made with 120mm spacing in the back. So more or less the classic ten speed. In this case, it has one of those swell ultra six freewheels, to fit six cogs in the space of five, and a 6-8 speed chain width, to accommodate that modification. The bar and stem are something from Asia (SR, maybe), and the bar has a randonneur bend.

The freewheel range goes up to 28 in the largest cog, so I recently changed out the rear derailleur to an early Shimano Tourney that will work. It's almost identical in construction and capacity to the early short cage Crane derailleurs, but this has a steel pulley cage, so is a little heavier (not much, but a little).










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Old 01-18-21, 07:22 PM
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.
...the other thing I realized pretty early on is that I will never be able to fit my fat feet onto the original pedals that always some on these (usually Lyotards). So another modification that takes about 20 minutes (pull the cranks and retap the pedal holes to 9/16"), is standard policy for me. I do it when the bike is disassembled initially for cleaning and relubrication.

There are a lot of pedal taps avaalable for this job, but by far the best and easiest to use are the long, tapered taps made and sold by Hozan.

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Old 01-18-21, 07:26 PM
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What eventually happens to the original bar and stem on a PX-10 that gets ridden hard





...then something breaks.
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Old 01-18-21, 07:32 PM
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What happens to Simplex derailleurs when removed improperly.





...that little tabbed washer thingy is what maintains the upper pivot spring tension. Once it pops off, you can still mount the rear mechanism, but it won't work properly, because no upper pivot spring tension any more. There's a repair possible, but it's a little tricky, and involves epoxy. Next time I fix one, I'll take some pictures.
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Old 01-18-21, 07:38 PM
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Here's an 80's PX-10, modified for city use.






...I recently switched it over to Ruffy Tuffy tyres, because the city recycling trucks had been leaking broken glass bits for a few months.
Goes a little slower because of the extra tyre weight, but still better than the alternative. Everything's a trade off.

This is custom yellow paint by Cycle Art, from back in the day.
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Old 01-18-21, 10:10 PM
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Great idea to collect all the wisdom. I would like to add
1. that the Simplex Criterium derailleurs are very nice shifting. And they will last if cared for so don't believe the hype. I splurged on an IRD 13-24 5 speed FW on a 6207 hub with a shortened axel to fit the 122 spacing. My PX-10 was rather abused before I got it but the derailleurs had no serious cracks and I was careful removing and reinstalling them. They worked flawlessly for several thousand miles before I let it go to make room for a Raleigh Comp.
2. Mafac racers are awesome and 1/2 hoods are readily available from Rustines and Koolstop makes great brake pads for the Mafac holders.
3. It is not a big deal to sand down a regular stem to fit that french steerer.
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Old 01-18-21, 11:54 PM
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Cool post.

Was the rear derailleur hanger on your white bike already threaded for the Tourney derailleur?

From looking around for info on my PX10 I think your white one is from 1972. 71, 73, and 74 had the fancy Nervex lugs on in the head tube. 72 had the plain lugs up there. later models had a different sticker (decal) setup, and I think they stopped painting the head lugs after 74.
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Old 01-18-21, 11:56 PM
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...here is an especially valuable contribution by verktyg , (who knows more than me about this French bicycle stuff,) that has pretty much what you need to know on adapting other derailleurs to work on the proprietary Simplex dropouts. Many pictures. ................... Thank you, Chas.
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Old 01-19-21, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ltokuno View Post
Cool post.

Was the rear derailleur hanger on your white bike already threaded for the Tourney derailleur?

From looking around for info on my PX10 I think your white one is from 1972. 71, 73, and 74 had the fancy Nervex lugs on in the head tube. 72 had the plain lugs up there. later models had a different sticker (decal) setup, and I think they stopped painting the head lugs after 74.
...see the post I linked from verktyg above. I had to run a fine thread 10mm tap through it. They're cheap on Amazon.
Thanks for the dating help, but I have to admit I am hopelessly lost on aging these.

I can more or less tell the 70's one from the 80's ones, because the geometry got tighter and shorter.

Otherwise, it's kind of mass confusion when I look at one. I have a 70's bike that is really steep in the head tube angles.
Not sure why. It's definitely not bent, but I did put 27" wheels on it. Frame was originally sold in a pro shop in Germany.

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Old 01-19-21, 12:18 AM
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Some details of the above bike. No components are original





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Old 01-19-21, 12:28 AM
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^^^^the little aluminum number plates on the BB shell are often missing. Not sure the numbers are meaningful anyway.

I use those crank fixing bolts quite a bit, to avoid having to mess around with Stronglight crank caps, which are a unique diameter (23.35), requiring a proprietary crank puller as well. If your bike is old and neglected enough when you first get it, the crank caps are often frozen in place. You can usually get them out whole by drilling two holes and using a pin spanner, but it makes you wonder if it's worth reinstalling them when you can just buy or find used a pair of these.

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Old 01-19-21, 01:18 AM
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So here's an odd question-


Did *any* us-spec PX-10s or similar high end Peugeots come with Simplex SLJ parts? Those seem completely absent from this side of the Atlantic- the only bike I've seen with them are the carbon lugged 80s Peugeots. (the exotic higher end Peugeots like the PY seemed more likely to come with Campy NR)
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Old 01-19-21, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
So here's an odd question-


Did *any* us-spec PX-10s or similar high end Peugeots come with Simplex SLJ parts? Those seem completely absent from this side of the Atlantic- the only bike I've seen with them are the carbon lugged 80s Peugeots. (the exotic higher end Peugeots like the PY seemed more likely to come with Campy NR)
The 1977 US catalog shows the PY10E with SLJ deraileurs.
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Old 01-19-21, 05:38 AM
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I’m using the 42 tooth Red Clover triplitizer middle chainring on my Stronglight model 93 crankset. I wanted a gearing range appropriate for hills and gravel of Eroica, so I installed a 46 tooth outer chairing with a 30 tooth granny gear. I installed a 13-30 freewheel. This provides a half step gear progression. A Simplex 410 long cage rear derailleur shifts perfectly and has more than enough range for any gear combination. The Suntour front derailleur has an ideal cage shape for the chainring sizes and in designed for a triple touring crankset. https://www.redclovercomponents.com/s..._42_Teeth.html


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Old 01-19-21, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
So here's an odd question-


Did *any* us-spec PX-10s or similar high end Peugeots come with Simplex SLJ parts? Those seem completely absent from this side of the Atlantic- the only bike I've seen with them are the carbon lugged 80s Peugeots. (the exotic higher end Peugeots like the PY seemed more likely to come with Campy NR)
...the SLJ componentry from the later years (late 70's and 80's), is an entire topic in and of itself. Here is another post from verktyg that covers it in some depth. Thanks again. Chas. It appears in this thread : Simplex SLJ 6600 real life capacity, which has some other information on what is often a confusing topic to me, Simplex rear cog capacity.

Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
CMAW,

I recently did some IN DEPTH experiments with a variety of Simplex rear derailleurs.

Everyone mark down this date, I have to eat my words.

Attachment 436251

I used to tell everyone that Simplex Super LJ rear derailleurs had a capacity to work with a freewheel with up to 32 teeth! I'd never run into one that didn't until a few months ago which was the reason for this project. I couldn't get either a SLJ 5500 or SLJ 6600 RD to work on any freewheel over 24T.

I've used SLJ rear derailleurs with 28T, 30T and 32T FWs since the early 70s when they first came out.

A few months ago I discovered that Simplex made some "confusing" changes over the years as far as model numbers and freewheel sprocket capacities go.

The first model, the SLJ 615 NI was rated up to 34T in the 1974 catalog (I never tried more than 32T).

These can be identified by the chrome plated pivot bolts with SIMPLEX S JUY stamped into them. It's hard to tell the differences between these and the later versions without visually comparing them (hint, if there is a plastic pusher guide plate on the pulley cage, it's a later model).

SLJ 615 NI (1973-1975)

Attachment 436244

In 1975 Simplex changed the nomenclature on the SLJ derailleurs and added plastic pusher guide plates to the top pulleys on most of the all alloy models.

They offered the SLJ RDs with 3 different pulley cage configurations that had different sprocket capacities. (plus a whole slew of lower priced derailleurs but this is about the all aluminum alloy SLJ models).

SLJ 5000 CP was the competition model that had the cage pivot centered between the the pulleys. FW capacity was 26T max. (I've used these with up to 28T FW sprockets)

Attachment 436248

SJL 5000 T was the "touring" model with a FW capacity of 30T.

Attachment 436249

SLJ 5000 GT was the long pulley cage version with a FW capacity of 34T.

Attachment 436250

In 1975 Simplex also offered their first drop parallelogram RD. They appeared briefly then became unavailable probably because of a patent issue with Suntour or Shimano.

SLJ 6000 T had a FW capacity of 30T with the plastic pusher guide plate and 24T without.

Attachment 436252

SLJ 6000 GT was the long pulley cage model with a FW capacity of 34T.

Attachment 436253

To muddy the water more, /P added to the part number included a removable "claw hanger", /SP mounted directly to the dropout hanger.

In the early 80s, Simplex switched to black anodized alloy pivot bolts with a white plastic plug in the center hex hole like the one pictured in CMAW's first post.

SLJ 5500 CP/SP competition model with a FW capacity of 26T (/SP indicating direct mount).

Attachment 436254

SJL 5500 T/SP tourist model with a FW capacity of 30T.

Attachment 436255

SLJ 5500 GT/SP long pulley cage model with an advertized FW capacity of 36T.

Attachment 436256

SLJ 6600 T/SP (like the one pictured by the OP) Here's where Lucien Juy went off his meds... "T" should indicate a tourist model with a 30T FW capacity but these had a 24T capacity!

Attachment 436257

SLJ 6600 GT/SP long pulley cage model with an advertized FW capacity of 36T.


I'm going to skip over the dozens of flavors of Simplex RDs to the SX 610 series (also the less common SX 630) which were probably the best of the ones that weren't all alloy. They had alloy pivot knuckles and stainless steel sheet metal covering the obligatory Delrin plastic in the parallelogram plates.

SX 610 T/P with a claw hanger and SX T/SP direct mount were the "touring" models with a FW capacities of 28T. On most of these, you need to change the upper pivot bolts to go from claw mount to direct mount.

They came with Simplex, Spidel, Gipiemme, Peugeot and Motobecane badges.

Attachment 436263

CMWA, please see my Next Message for continuations and answers to your first question.... I've gone over the message size limit.

verktyg

Chas.
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Old 01-19-21, 10:25 AM
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Here is an entertaining piece explaining why these are so confusing.

The Simpleton's Guide to Simplex: SLJ 5000

The first of the highly esteemed Simplex SLJ (. . . or Super Lucien Juy) series rear derailleurs, originally but briefly known as the Prestige Super L.J. debuted in 1972 as the SLJ AR 615, which was subsequently superseded by the almost-the-same-but-not-quite SLJ 5000 coincident to model year 1975. The change in nomenclature was begot of Derailleur le Simplex having decided to undertake a wholesale overhaul of their derailleur model designations principally because they had begun to proliferate said model lineup to a point where their previous part numbering scheme could no longer properly provide a descriptive context (. . . as if it ever did in the first place). The resulting reformulation of model numbers was intended to result in assignments that clearly articulated (. . . pun intended) the specifics of a given derailleur component . . . ASSUMING that one had the corresponding cipher key. As previously discussed in CHAPTER IX - POST 1974 SIMPLEX DERAILLEUR CODES (. . . i.e., Taking a Swim in the Alphabet Soup) the Rosetta Stone explanation of Simplex model numbers dating from said era would be as follows:...
...
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Old 01-19-21, 11:04 AM
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Some random contributions -

1. The PX-10 was pretty much in its main form by around 1960, using metric gauge Reynolds 531 tubing and Nervex Professional lugs by that point. The most frequently seen livery for early models was blue with gold head lugs, though green with red head lug examples are also seen. Production bikes have metal head badges.

2. c.1965 (?) the classic black and white with checkerboards paint scheme was in place, at least on team bikes. This also used Nervex Professional lugs with the head lugs painted black. The graphics for the downtube included Peugeot in relatively smaller block lettering, replacing the older, swirly font of earlier models. Metal head badges remain in use until c.1970. There are blue examples without black head lugs but with gold lining during this era.

3. At some point in the late 60s Peugeot switched from Nervex BB shells to less expensive units - Gargettes, perhaps?

4. c.1970-74 the graphics changed to add black and gold stripes parallel to the downtube on the flanks of the Peugeot name. The metal head badges were replaced with foil units - some transitional examples have foil badges with rivets. The serial number is no longer stamped directly into the BB shell, but is stamped onto an aluminum plate riveted to the underside of the BB.

5. c.1972 (and ONLY in 1972, I think) Peugeot built the PX-10 using plain Nervex DuBois lugs, rather than the curly Professional model. The head lugs are still painted black, and the more relaxed frame geometry remains.

6. c.1973 SOME Peugeot PX-10s surface featuring Nervex Professional lugs combined with much steeper head and seat tube angles. Every example of these I have seen does NOT have the conventional serial number plate of the era, but instead has what appear to be uneven, hand-stamped numbers parallel to the line of the BB spindle.




7. c.1974 Peugeot catalogs the PX-10LE, which has the same upright frame angles and plain DuBois lugs, but with the head lugs left white and some equipment changes, including Maillard 700 hubs rather than Normandy Luxe Competition, Mafac Competition brakes rather than Racers, and an allen-key Atax stem with Philippe bars. The examples I have seen have the same hand-stamped serial numbers, as opposed to the riveted number plates of other Peugeots.




8. c.1975 Peugeot revamps the graphics scheme. The black and gold stripes flanking the brand name on the downtube are replaced with red, white and blue French tricolor bands running around the tube, perpendicular to the line of the frame tube. The earlier checkerboard and World Champion rings bands on the seat tube, flanking the brand graphic, are replaced with the same tricolor bands.

I'm also including some links here - I helped David Goerndt assemble his PX-10 database 20 years ago, and what Dale B. salvaged is preserved here. Pity that not all of his links survived - David was a graphic artist and had assembled images of the various decal schemes through the years.

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Old 01-19-21, 11:29 AM
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I'd love to find a 1960s era PX 10. I have a 1983 PXN 10. One thing I do like about the later PX 10s is that the simplex drop out was modified so that it could work with any derailleur.
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Old 01-19-21, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...this is a heavily modified, but not obnoxiously so, PX-10 in the randonneur school.
I don't know the year (I'm not very good with dating these bikes), but it's a frame that was made with 120mm spacing in the back. So more or less the classic ten speed. In this case, it has one of those swell ultra six freewheels, to fit six cogs in the space of five, and a 6-8 speed chain width, to accommodate that modification. The bar and stem are something from Asia (SR, maybe), and the bar has a randonneur bend.

The freewheel range goes up to 28 in the largest cog, so I recently changed out the rear derailleur to an early Shimano Tourney that will work. It's almost identical in construction and capacity to the early short cage Crane derailleurs, but this has a steel pulley cage, so is a little heavier (not much, but a little).










This is a prime example of the PX10's greatest strength, IMO: versatility. With the MAFAC racer brakes, generous clearances and fender eyelets, you can install BIG tires, fenders and racks. (try THAT with a Colnago! and BTW, more Tours de France were won on PX10s than on Colnagos!) Or you can keep it stripped down with the original tubulars for a go-fast.
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Old 01-19-21, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Iím using the 42 tooth Red Clover triplitizer middle chainring on my Stronglight model 93 crankset.

...thank you for mentioning Red Clover. I just looked at their website, and although I had heard of the triplezers they make and sell, I don't need quite that much range on most of my riding here. I had no idea they make and sell a 122 BCD 37 tooth ring, though, which I might buy today or tomorrow. That would be perfect for a lot of what I run into locally...just a low enough gear for my short hills without needing to replace the spindle with a longer one to space for the extra inside ring.
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Old 01-19-21, 11:48 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
So here's an odd question-


Did *any* us-spec PX-10s or similar high end Peugeots come with Simplex SLJ parts? Those seem completely absent from this side of the Atlantic- the only bike I've seen with them are the carbon lugged 80s Peugeots. (the exotic higher end Peugeots like the PY seemed more likely to come with Campy NR)
IIRC, in the mid-late 70's, PY10's came with a full gold-anodized Spidel (Simplex SLJ/MAFAC/Stronglight) group. Google "Bernard Thevenet" to see examples. A local shop in Seattle had one, complete with 531SL tubing and brazed on brakes, IN MY SIZE (64cm) but I couldn't figure out how to afford it. )-;
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Old 01-26-21, 01:28 PM
  #24  
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...a very nice example of the early 70's blue ones just showed up here.
1971 Peugeot PX10 info needed please
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Old 01-26-21, 01:31 PM
  #25  
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Here is a PXN Super Comp from about '79 or '80 in blue:



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