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Paramount city bike

Old 02-15-21, 08:46 AM
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bmc5733946 
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Paramount city bike

I'm building a sort of Raleigh Sports / city bike thing from my 1974 Schwinn Paramount. This bike came with Weinmann center pull brakes and I'm pretty sure that I can use those with the Weinmann upright style brake levers. I have some Campagnolo side pull brakes available and was wondering if anyone has used them with upright bars and city levers?

Brian
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1974 Paramount White (Campagnolo Record, Weinmann)
1975 Viscount Aerospace Pro (Vintage Dura-Ace)
1971 Schwinn Super Sport Kool Lemon (single speed)
1971 Raleigh Superbe (mens)
1974 Raleigh Superbe (ladies)
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Old 02-15-21, 08:54 AM
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The cable pull makes virtually any non-linear brake lever compatible with the Record sidepull, and vise-versa.

As far as braking feel, you'll be surprised how well conventional side-pull Record brakes work with the Weinmann/Dia-Compe upright bar levers. I've done it before as a front brake and was pleasantly surprised. Very good braking feel and balance between the spring resistance and the lever's pivot.



I'm presently running a similar setup with early Dura-Ace calipers - more or less similar to the Records - on a '78 Raleigh Pro. It came with Scott-Mathauser pads, but with this specific combination, the brakes are too powerful and not as modulable with the grippier pads.

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Old 02-15-21, 08:54 AM
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You'll have no problem using Campy sidepulls with upright city bars and levers. Have at it.
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Old 02-15-21, 09:04 AM
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Thank you, now I may even have too many options. More options the better though.

Brian
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1971 Raleigh Superbe (mens)
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Old 02-15-21, 09:52 AM
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I started out with Weinmann city levers on this 531 Falcon. While they looked "period correct" for the conversion, I'd already put '80s mtb cranks and rd on it, I went ahead and put some early long mtb levers on with the original-ish centerpulls, no problems braking with one finger.

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Old 02-15-21, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bmc5733946 View Post
I'm building a sort of Raleigh Sports / city bike thing from my 1974 Schwinn Paramount. This bike came with Weinmann center pull brakes and I'm pretty sure that I can use those with the Weinmann upright style brake levers. I have some Campagnolo side pull brakes available and was wondering if anyone has used them with upright bars and city levers?

Brian
Pic's man, we need pic's, especially when you say Paramount.

The upright levers will also work fine with the centerpulls, they were set up that way on zillions of Schwinn Suburbans, Collegiate's and many, many others.

Here's Ms. merziac's latest acquisition set up just so.


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Old 02-15-21, 02:23 PM
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Just for the record - not that I'd recommend them on a build trying to be period correct, or most C&V bikes due to their large size - the Sturmey-Archer BLS92 is, by far, the best looking of any modern upright-bar brake lever I've ever seen.

They're also the best feeling modern brake lever I've ever used. Granted, I have fairly large hands. It's nice to be able to use all four fingers though. Feels very civilized and "the way it should be" on an upright bar bike. There isn't a Tektro in existence that feels like it.





They just have to be non-US market items though. The good stuff never winds up here...

-Kurt
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Old 02-20-21, 09:03 AM
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Someone demanded pics so here they are! Now for the questions, there is significant rust showing in places and there is over spray from a burst aerosol paint can, does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with these problems short of a repaint? I would love to send it out for a repaint but simply can't afford it at this time and would like to ride it some. The factory paint seems very thin and fragile. There is some pitting of the chrome on the lugs as well. I'm really looking for a direction to go on this frame. By the way I do have a complete set of decals!

Brian


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1974 Paramount White (Campagnolo Record, Weinmann)
1975 Viscount Aerospace Pro (Vintage Dura-Ace)
1971 Schwinn Super Sport Kool Lemon (single speed)
1971 Raleigh Superbe (mens)
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Old 02-20-21, 09:08 AM
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More pics!

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1971 Schwinn Super Sport Kool Lemon (single speed)
1971 Raleigh Superbe (mens)
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Old 02-20-21, 09:15 AM
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I'll try resizing these! Well couldn't figure that out!

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Old 02-20-21, 09:24 AM
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Looks more like red paint splatter than rust. Hit it with some fine microfinishing compound. Should come off. Polish with Meguiar's #7 and wax after that.

-Kurt
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Old 02-20-21, 09:41 AM
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Kurt it's both, the sprinkles are orange paint that came from a ruptured can, entirely my fault. The rust is at the seat post lug and where components were clamped to the frame. I appreciate the comments about the paint and Meguiars. I suppose washing is my first effort just to remove crud.

Brian
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Old 02-20-21, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by romperrr View Post
You'll have no problem using Campy sidepulls with upright city bars and levers. Have at it.
+1, been there, done that; pretty sure you could actuate Campy sidepulls with levers made out of wooden clothes pins, and they'd still work great.
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Old 02-20-21, 05:20 PM
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That rust is not so bad that it is a cause for immediate concern, especially if you don't live next door to a body of salt water or are planning to leave the bike out in the rain. You can easily put a coat of paste wax over it and ride it as is for a few years if you wish.
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Old 02-21-21, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bmc5733946 View Post
Kurt it's both, the sprinkles are orange paint that came from a ruptured can, entirely my fault. The rust is at the seat post lug and where components were clamped to the frame. I appreciate the comments about the paint and Meguiars. I suppose washing is my first effort just to remove crud.

Brian
Some of that may be Schwinn's red oxide primer showing through as well, nothing life threatening here. Whatever little is actual rust can probably be rubbed out. Any solvent will get the paint off the chrome, elbow grease and Meguiars should get it off the paint as Kurt said.

Yours looks almost identical to one of mine that will also be built up as an upright for a very good friend.



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Old 03-18-21, 08:36 AM
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Well the Paramount frame is now on its way to Waterford for paint and evaluation of the chrome. The chrome on the fork crown looked pretty bad to me. They will evaluate and advise. The perfectionist in me was not going to be satisfied with things the way they were. After I started working on getting the overspray/spatter off I found I was going right through the paint in some places by just rubbing it and there were also some pitts that were pretty big in other places. I am confident I've done the right thing with this bike as much as I would have liked to preserve the patina and had an original paint frame. I'll post picks when it returns and when it's built. I'm sure I'll have more questions as well. Thanks for all the help so far.

Brian
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1975 Viscount Aerospace Pro (Vintage Dura-Ace)
1971 Schwinn Super Sport Kool Lemon (single speed)
1971 Raleigh Superbe (mens)
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Old 03-18-21, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bmc5733946 View Post
Well the Paramount frame is now on its way to Waterford for paint and evaluation of the chrome. The chrome on the fork crown looked pretty bad to me. They will evaluate and advise. The perfectionist in me was not going to be satisfied with things the way they were. After I started working on getting the overspray/spatter off I found I was going right through the paint in some places by just rubbing it and there were also some pitts that were pretty big in other places. I am confident I've done the right thing with this bike as much as I would have liked to preserve the patina and had an original paint frame. I'll post picks when it returns and when it's built. I'm sure I'll have more questions as well. Thanks for all the help so far.

Brian
I take it this is going to be one an upright city build that's most definitely not going to get locked to a bike rack

-Kurt
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Old 03-18-21, 09:15 AM
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My 1968 Schwinn paramount tourist was set up with flat bars when it was purchased. I haven't rebuilt it yet. I prefer a drop bar build but I don't know if I want to do that to this bike. It just has so much integrity as it is that I may leave it as a townie. This is what the bike looked like when I bought it. I know that the original owner rode this bike set up this way for decades:



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Old 03-18-21, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
My 1968 Schwinn paramount tourist was set up with flat bars when it was purchased. I haven't rebuilt it yet. I prefer a drop bar build but I don't know if I want to do that to this bike. It just has so much integrity as it is that I may leave it as a townie. This is what the bike looked like when I bought it. I know that the original owner rode this bike set up this way for decades:


I'm wondering if the geo of your Paramount with upright bars is the same as their drop bar road models. It is possible that it is different. Looking at your picture of your blue bike, the seat angle looks more relaxed than normal. The angles on lessor Chicago made Schwinns (like a Suburban) with upright handlebars are in the 70 degree range.

It is not uncommon that cyclists want to switch their handlebars from drop to upright or reverse not realizing that that changes their body position on the bike with the result that their saddle either needs to go back more (with upright bars) or forward more if they are switching to drop bars.

I'm just now painting a new frame I'm making for my wife using upright handlebars. After setting her up on my stationary fit bike, I relaxed her seat angle back to 71 to place her saddle in a more appropriate position when using upright handlebars. I don't know if you have a way of measuring your seat angle but I'm super curious if they adjusted the geometry of their Paramounts for upright handlebars.
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Old 03-18-21, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
I'm wondering if the geo of your Paramount with upright bars is the same as their drop bar road models. It is possible that it is different. Looking at your picture of your blue bike, the seat angle looks more relaxed than normal. The angles on lessor Chicago made Schwinns (like a Suburban) with upright handlebars are in the 70 degree range.

It is not uncommon that cyclists want to switch their handlebars from drop to upright or reverse not realizing that that changes their body position on the bike with the result that their saddle either needs to go back more (with upright bars) or forward more if they are switching to drop bars.

I'm just now painting a new frame I'm making for my wife using upright handlebars. After setting her up on my stationary fit bike, I relaxed her seat angle back to 71 to place her saddle in a more appropriate position when using upright handlebars. I don't know if you have a way of measuring your seat angle but I'm super curious if they adjusted the geometry of their Paramounts for upright handlebars.
Good point and I'll need to do a bit of research. I assumed the geometry was the same but I don't know that to be true.
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Old 03-18-21, 09:54 AM
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Pretty sure the geometry is the same on the Paramount Tourists. The only difference I can recall is that 3-speed Tourists (including the second-gen models) usually have a chainguard tab on the frame.

-Kurt
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Old 03-18-21, 10:15 AM
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Kurt, I lock the car doors in the garage! I lost one bike to theft, a "friend" borrowed it and it was stolen while locked to a "parking meter" or so the story went. Regardless of the veracity of the "friend's" story I'm a locker upper. I was a bit of a thief in a previous life and appreciate how they work, easiest target and all that. Yes this city bike will be locked!!

Brian
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1971 Raleigh Superbe (mens)
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Old 03-18-21, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Pretty sure the geometry is the same on the Paramount Tourists. The only difference I can recall is that 3-speed Tourists (including the second-gen models) usually have a chainguard tab on the frame.

-Kurt
Now I'm wondering if the Paramount Tourist model has a different seat angle than the standard model. I thought it had longer chain stays but I don't remember. Years ago a repainted lots of them but not in the last 20 years.

Here is a picture of a light weight upright frame/bike I made for myself. It was a frame building class example. It has 71 angles. I have studied upright bicycle geometries and know that the classic Dutch bicycle has very shallow angles for their very upright positions. Behind my bike is one of my fitting bikes and it is easy to see how the saddle wants to be further back when setting up to use upright bars. It is obvious when riding one trying to find the best position. Behind my fitting bike on the wall is my frame design fixture. By placing the saddle/handlebar position found on the fitting bike on the design fixture, one can create the best possible geometry to match the chosen seat post and stem. Drop bars rotate the body (and your seat) forward (requiring a more upright seat angle) while upright bars rotate your body back (relaxing the seat angle). In a perfect world, the frame's geometry matches the rider's body position whatever kind of handlebars are chosen.
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Old 03-18-21, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
Now I'm wondering if the Paramount Tourist model has a different seat angle than the standard model. I thought it had longer chain stays but I don't remember. Years ago a repainted lots of them but not in the last 20 years.
I believe that's the case on the first-gen Paramount Tourists. The P11's from '58-on are pretty tight:




-Kurt
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Old 03-18-21, 03:57 PM
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Yes, a 1967 Paramount tourist model can make a very nice city bike. Based on the serial numbers, my frame is about two months younger than the OP's. Other than the chrome, headset and head badge, nothing hanging on this frame is original, including the paint.

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