Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Unknown 'star' frame

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Unknown 'star' frame

Old 11-10-21, 01:14 PM
  #1  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Unknown 'star' frame

Picked up this frame for cheap at a bike salvage yard. $25, I could not resist since it is pretty cool, Italian (?, bottom bracket has Italian threads), and is my size.
There are no discernable decals for identification. There is Campagnolo decal on the chain stay and some remnants on the fork blades (unknown).
Fork steerer tube has Columbus ridges and is stamped with a "3" and backwards "S". Bottom bracket shell is stamped with "54", "53", and backwards "S". Size: seat tube 53cm c-c, 54cm c-c, BB shell 70mm, rear fork 125mm, seat post 27.2mm. Campagnolo drop-outs front and rear (has what I know to be "portacatena" holes; thank you forum members!).



le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-10-21, 01:22 PM
  #2  
philpeugeot
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 351

Bikes: Bike Friday PRP, Bike Friday NWT, Bromton M6R, 1991 Miyata 914, 1991 Miyata 1000, 1986 Raleigh Portage, many more frames

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked 241 Times in 134 Posts
Viner?
philpeugeot is offline  
Likes For philpeugeot:
Old 11-10-21, 02:06 PM
  #3  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,665

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3681 Post(s)
Liked 2,098 Times in 1,133 Posts
That'll be quite the resto effort.
Belgian and Swiss bikes also frequently had Italian threaded BBs.
Very unusual to have the star without one of the points going straight up - ie your star is upside down.
Olmo used to use a similar right-side up logo.
Guerciotti had a star too, but it was kind of distorted and asymmetrical.

DiabloScott is offline  
Old 11-10-21, 02:22 PM
  #4  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Sorry, trouble with photos. I have an old Olmo with a star and it is not the same.
Here are more photos:









le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-10-21, 02:27 PM
  #5  
fabiofarelli
Senior Member
 
fabiofarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 538

Bikes: Especialy Alan, but also Empella, Cascarsi, Gazelle, Bianchi, CJV, Sirocco, Berkers etcetera

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked 789 Times in 279 Posts
Viner.
https://vineristi.wordpress.com/2011...s-and-crosses/
fabiofarelli is offline  
Likes For fabiofarelli:
Old 11-10-21, 05:52 PM
  #6  
WGB
WGB
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 4,732

Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1478 Post(s)
Liked 1,380 Times in 931 Posts
I had one very similar to this that I posted summer of 2019. Unfortunately my computer died and I lost my photos.

I tried a search but couldn't recall the title.

MauriceMoss recognized it and there was an interesting story behind the production. Not saying it's not a Viner just confirming.

Edit: Mine might have been a Vetta
juvela might confirm it??

Last edited by WGB; 11-10-21 at 06:30 PM.
WGB is offline  
Old 11-10-21, 06:17 PM
  #7  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,815

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4196 Post(s)
Liked 3,943 Times in 1,716 Posts
Originally Posted by fabiofarelli View Post
The stars are aligned.
Matches the Viner details in the link.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 11-10-21, 07:11 PM
  #8  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanks all! I am not at all familiar with the name so I appreciate the input. Looking at the photos I now think the fork says "Prima Velocissma". Could that be a model, or just a catch phrase for the brand? The BB shell appears to have had heat applied I would assume in order to remove the cups. I will do my best to bring this frame back to life; I think it deserves it.
le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-10-21, 11:50 PM
  #9  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
I have just read the link write-up on these frames (Thank you fabiofarelli ). I now know that this is a "Special Professional" with Columbus SL tubing; outstanding! I will make sure it gets done right with a professional paint job (probably keep it the same color) and some period Italian parts. I wonder if there is a way to determine the year. There is that odd backwards "S" that is on the BB shell and steerer tube. Could it be a year indicator or the mark of the actual builder? I now need to see what the actual decals need to be. The fork crown must be fairly early as it is flat, there are bosses for a bottle cage, and braze-on shifter mount bosses. I figure more 70s than 80s with that crown design. Does anyone have a known year example?
le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 12:43 PM
  #10  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,127
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked 620 Times in 483 Posts
Given the portacatena holes in the DOs it can be no earlier than '78 (and most likely '79 is more realistic for earliest date), most of the time those DOs were in use for 1980 models and pretty much dropped out of use by '85. Having recessed Allen brake bolts yet over BB shell cable guides makes me think kind of "in between" so I'd make my guess "1982". Give or take.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 02:14 PM
  #11  
noobinsf 
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,171

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1038 Post(s)
Liked 1,066 Times in 637 Posts
Originally Posted by WGB View Post
I had one very similar to this that I posted summer of 2019. Unfortunately my computer died and I lost my photos.

I tried a search but couldn't recall the title.

recognized it and there was an interesting story behind the production. Not saying it's not a Viner just confirming.

Edit: Mine might have been a Vetta
Here is the thread, but it looks like the markings are different: Chrome mystery bike??
noobinsf is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 02:29 PM
  #12  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 19,613

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5530 Post(s)
Liked 2,490 Times in 1,601 Posts
Did you buy this in the US or Italy? Gus Betat in New Orleans imported Viners to the US. I saw a number of these bikes. They had, I believe, fairly steep geometry. Folks who raced criteriums liked them a lot.
bikemig is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 03:16 PM
  #13  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Did you buy this in the US or Italy? Gus Betat in New Orleans imported Viners to the US. I saw a number of these bikes. They had, I believe, fairly steep geometry. Folks who raced criteriums liked them a lot.
I bought these last 2 frames in New Hampshire. The Viner has a registration decal from Harvard University which considering the frame condition and lack of original decals probably was added much later in its life, making its origin of purchase difficult to place without a serial number. The Moser frame had Texas shop and club decals so there is no link between the two in my opinion. The guy I bought them from was just advertising some old parts and was not what I would consider a collector or flipper, more of a scavenger who probably picked up the frames already stripped. He really didn't know anything about them which is why they were cheap aside from their conditions.

Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
Here is the thread, but it looks like the markings are different: Chrome mystery bike??
Regardless of this frame being ID'd as a Viner I appreciate you digging up that link on the old chrome frame; very interesting look and research. I think I would have purchased it at that cost which is essentially why I bought this frame (unknown at the time) and the Moser for $75 combined. I might test ride the Moser when complete, but the Viner is a keeper for me to ride.

Last edited by le bici di jaco; 11-11-21 at 05:05 PM.
le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 04:54 PM
  #14  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
I am sure that this should be asked in a separate forum/thread, but I will strike while the iron is hot. I am new to repairing stuff except that which generally easily unscrews without resorting to extreme methods. I would like to get this frame done quickly if possible and at least expense since I have acquired the proper tools and don't want to bring to a bike shop for this work unless absolutely necessary.

I assume that the BB was unable to be easily removed so I am going to first pretreat with PB blaster penetrant and then wrap in plastic and submerge in ice cold water until thoroughly chilled. I will remove it from the water and immediately warm it up with a heat gun (think higher temperature hair dryer; I use it normally for industrial heat shrink sleeving). I do not want to torch it as it looks like it has undergone that already (would that extreme localized heat cause improper tempering or weakening of frame connections?). I am thinking that going from rapid extremes of temperature will, due to expansion and contraction, help break the corrosive 'weld' between the cups and shell. Does this make sense, or am I nuts?
le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 05:17 PM
  #15  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Given the portacatena holes in the DOs it can be no earlier than '78 (and most likely '79 is more realistic for earliest date), most of the time those DOs were in use for 1980 models and pretty much dropped out of use by '85. Having recessed Allen brake bolts yet over BB shell cable guides makes me think kind of "in between" so I'd make my guess "1982". Give or take.
Do you think that the flat fork crown would help to date it? I haven't really looked at any other examples of the frame other than those shown in the previously posted link where there really was no reference as to year. I did notice that the shell nozzle cut-outs were different on my BB shell (oblong) compared to those pictured (circular) aside from cable routing. I have no other frames with a flat fork crown.
le bici di jaco is offline  
Old 11-12-21, 09:51 AM
  #16  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,127
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked 620 Times in 483 Posts
Originally Posted by le bici di jaco View Post
Do you think that the flat fork crown would help to date it?
not sure since Viner appears to use different crowns as well as other frame bits in a haphazard mode, so may not point to a specific model or year, but for me a flat crown has some extra panache (DeRosa style points!) so I'd consider it a plus!
Can't go wrong with a Columbus SL Italian frame that cost you half of $75 (did I get that right?), it's a steal, despite the rust!
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-12-21, 12:25 PM
  #17  
le bici di jaco
.......
Thread Starter
 
le bici di jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
not sure since Viner appears to use different crowns as well as other frame bits in a haphazard mode, so may not point to a specific model or year, but for me a flat crown has some extra panache (DeRosa style points!) so I'd consider it a plus!
Can't go wrong with a Columbus SL Italian frame that cost you half of $75 (did I get that right?), it's a steal, despite the rust!
Okay, I was not aware of the variety of crown designs. I agree on the looks of the flat crown; I like it. Yes, I bought 2 frames for $75; the Viner was actually $25 (Moser $50), but if you just split the cost, even $37.50 is as you said "a steal". I did have to haggle a little, but in this case the rust was a benefit.
le bici di jaco is offline  
Likes For le bici di jaco:
Old 11-12-21, 12:40 PM
  #18  
WGB
WGB
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 4,732

Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1478 Post(s)
Liked 1,380 Times in 931 Posts
noobinsf it was that frame. Obviously my mind is failing.

$75 for both is pretty good!
WGB is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.