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Problems with a Campagnolo crank.

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Problems with a Campagnolo crank.

Old 12-16-21, 10:36 AM
  #26  
repechage
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
In Italy, especially among those of Campagnolo's ilk, cyclotouring was a pursuit practiced by British, French and German girly-men! /s

Italian bikes came in 2 flavors pedestrian/urban single speed or 3-4 sprocket rear derailleur only models, or... full on racing machines ridden by "uomini d'acciaio" (men of steel).

Witness the original Campy 151 BCD Record cranks with a minimum 44T small chainring. A lot of "racing" bikes from the late 60's through the early 70's came with 52-45T chainrings which were hard to work out smooth ratios that would allow more than 7 distinct gears!

The Campy Record Triple had a 36T small chainring. They could have made a 30T chainring to fit the 100mm BCD pattern but that would have been for wimps. The original triples were most likely produced for tandems! Racing tandems!

It wasn't until the early 1980's when Campagnolo introduced their down market Triomphe, Victory, and Nuovo Gran Sport 116 BCD cranks with a 35T minimum small chainring. The 35T, 36T, 37T, 38T, 39T, 40T and 41T girly-man chainrings were very hard to find because of... availability, maybe???

One reason those cranks didn't sell well is because they were a major departure away from the much copied iconic Campy cranks introduced in 1958. The frumpy 25+ year old design was what Campy buyers looked for.... or why Shimano ate their lunch in the mid-range market!

It wasn't until Campy's ill fated venture into MTB components and the brief era of "racing triples" that they took lower gearing seriously!

Ora che ho lanciato il guanto di sfida !!!

ADDENDUM: I built a number of 1/2 Step Triples - 50-46-30T. They worked great with 6 speed FWs



With the advent of 7 and 8 speed cassettes the Shimano 48-38-28T MTB triples made more sense. Stay on one front chainring and shift the rear sprockets unless you needed to bail on a hill or had a strong tail wind!





verktyg /s
My guess way back was a 36t was the smallest Campagnolo would officially endorse for their front mech. Doing a triple specific cage was too much bother.
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Old 12-16-21, 11:07 AM
  #27  
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With Craftsman’s downgrading to its current state, I am not certain that the “thin wall” sockets are offered. Lowes pushes the sets of tools and doesn’t seem to focus on single pieces much at all. I’m certain that Proto, Snap-on and the other truck/jobber sold brands will have purpose machined or made sockets that get that application done.

The Campag, “peanut butter”, wrench was well worth the reasonable price found here in the FS sub forum, that I stumbled upon. It’s been much used, and appreciated tool, for my needs.

Bill
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Old 12-16-21, 11:19 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PBYO988 View Post
Hello everyone.
I can’t seem to find a socket to fit this crank arm bolt, it fouls on the arm and the clearance between arm and bolt is very tight. . Does anyone have a suggestion that could work please?


I'd say, first check the hex of your socket for matching to the hex of the bolt, by measuring across the flats. If the correct size socket doesn't fit, look for an older (30 or 40 years?) Craftsmen socket of the correct size. Most of my sockets are Craftsman of such age, and I have never had problems fitting them onto the bolts of a torqued Campagnolo chainset, new or old..
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Old 12-16-21, 11:21 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
With Craftsman’s downgrading to its current state, I am not certain that the “thin wall” sockets are offered. Lowes pushes the sets of tools and doesn’t seem to focus on single pieces much at all. I’m certain that Proto, Snap-on and the other truck/jobber sold brands will have purpose machined or made sockets that get that application done.

The Campag, “peanut butter”, wrench was well worth the reasonable price found here in the FS sub forum, that I stumbled upon. It’s been much used, and appreciated tool, for my needs.

Bill
There was a Park version of that tool, but I actually just had one break!

And FWIW, I'm 99.9% sure my old Craftsman sockets are not a special thinwall version, nor are they a special heavy version for impact wrenches.
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Old 12-16-21, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
There was a Park version of that tool, but I actually just had one break!

And FWIW, I'm 99.9% sure my old Craftsman sockets are not a special thinwall version, nor are they a special heavy version for impact wrenches.
I’ll check my sockets, they did work fine for my two NR cranksets. Some of the later, last Sears items, were thicker walled, IIRC. The best level were beefier and had laser size marks. A post above mentioned the 3/8” drive vs 1/2” drive, the 3/8” would be smaller overall. Your impact specific sockets are probably higher strength steel than the hand tool items are/were. My son had the complete sets during his time in his high school auto-tech classes and apprenticeship period. They are now long gone, not much use for a linguist and French instructor at University😏

Bill
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Old 12-17-21, 06:02 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cranky old road View Post
I want to mention the Park CCW-2 but it looks like it's been discontinued. Includes thin walled 14, 15 and 16 ends and a hex for the caps. Mine gets a fair amount of use.
Park also made single socket "peanut butter" crank bolt wrenches; CCW-14, CCW-15, and CCW-16. The CCW-16 was thin enough to fit a notoriously tight Zeus crank arm and bolt. The 16mm socket on the CCW-2 would not fit.
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Old 12-17-21, 03:06 PM
  #32  
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I just bought this on eBay, New in the wrapper for $14.95 + $10.00 shipping. It has three different sizes, 14mm, 15mm, and 16mm. It was labeled as "cotterless crank wrench" Park Tools part No. CCW-2




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Old 12-17-21, 03:53 PM
  #33  
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My forty-year-old 3/8” drive Craftsman socket fits fine with plenty of clearance.


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Old 12-17-21, 05:59 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
I’ll check my sockets, they did work fine for my two NR cranksets. Some of the later, last Sears items, were thicker walled, IIRC. The best level were beefier and had laser size marks. A post above mentioned the 3/8” drive vs 1/2” drive, the 3/8” would be smaller overall. Your impact specific sockets are probably higher strength steel than the hand tool items are/were. My son had the complete sets during his time in his high school auto-tech classes and apprenticeship period. They are now long gone, not much use for a linguist and French instructor at University😏

Bill
Notice I didn't say "all Craftsman sockets are narrow enough (for this use)." I also have no idea which Craftman era and sourcing variants are usable. like mine are. In the days my dad and I bought the sockets which are now in my spotty collection, there were no "levels" of Craftsman. There were levels of tools sold in Sears stores, but Craftsman was the good level. But I'm not a scholar of the subject, just a user and owner sharing some of the context I fuzzily remember.

Essentially I only said "mine are good." This self assessment has zero bearing on whether anyone else's home stash items are good. It follows from my point of view that if one needs to buy sockets which will suit, one may have better than random luck if you seek out Craftsman-branded sockets from the late 1960s to late 1970s. That is what I can say.

Within our technology, one can measure the ID of a Campy (or TA or Stronglight) crank arm and set that number as the maximum tolerable OD of a proper bike chainset extraction kit. One can then set a caliper to that size and go the the Local Hardware Store or Big Box, and screen the socket sets that are in the store. Then buy the ones that "pass the qualification test," because you will have very good reasons to expect those to work. I have my memory, but you will have science. If I have to buy new ones that's what I'll do. There probably are other technical requirements, but I'm not a metallurgist.
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Old 12-17-21, 08:38 PM
  #35  
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The Park CCW-2 is a versatile tool (I've had one for decades) but I find that there is too much chamfer on the sockets, and that the socket wall is unnecessarily thick. If I pulled cranks every week or month (instead of a couple times per year, as I do) I'd want something better. Handy, though, for occasional home mechanics like myself.
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Old 12-18-21, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by QuikRick View Post
I just bought this on eBay, New in the wrapper for $14.95 + $10.00 shipping. It has three different sizes, 14mm, 15mm, and 16mm. It was labeled as "cotterless crank wrench" Park Tools part No. CCW-2

That's a newer version of the CCW-2 than I'm familiar with. It appears that the 16mm socket on your tool might well fit in a Zeus crank arm. The 16mm socket on the earlier version has a thick weld bead around the base of the 16mm socket, which prevents it from seating in a Zeus crank arm.
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Old 12-18-21, 11:30 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Brad L View Post
My forty-year-old 3/8” drive Craftsman socket fits fine with plenty of clearance.


My true value 3/8 drive socket set works on them too but I did run across one campy non drive side crank arm that it had trouble with. It seems all campy crankarms are not the same.
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Old 12-18-21, 01:09 PM
  #38  
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This is the Var tool that I bought in 1973 to work on the Campagnolo crank from my Raleigh Pro. The socket is thin walled 15 mm and the other end of the socket has a hex wrench that fits the dustcap
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Old 12-19-21, 12:36 PM
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somebody noted that this is a 3-ring Campagnolo crank setup without the 36t inner ring.

be very careful of the chainring bolts for this combo ! will be very difficult (or expensive) to find another set.

/markp
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Old 12-20-21, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912 View Post
somebody noted that this is a 3-ring Campagnolo crank setup without the 36t inner ring.

be very careful of the chainring bolts for this combo ! will be very difficult (or expensive) to find another set.
Campagnolo made two versions of the Record triple crank; the 1049/3, which mounted all three rings on the same 144mm bolt circle, and the 1049/5, which mounted the inner ring on a smaller bolt circle to accommodate smaller tooth counts. Campagnolo only made a 36 tooth ring for that bolt circle, but 30 and 31 tooth rings were available from third parties.

The bolts for the 1049/3 crank are not common, but triple length mounting bolts from e.g. Stronglight or Sakae Ringyo will work. The bolts for the inner ring of the 1049/5 are more difficult to source, as they comprise a special stand-off piece and Allen nut to secure the ring at the proper distance. I have heard, but cannt verify, that Avocet triple inner ring mounting hardware will work with the Campagnolo 1049-5 triple. In my experience, the Avocet hardware can be nearly as difficult to source as the Campagnolo.
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