Problems with a Campagnolo crank.
12-16-21 | 10:36 AM
#26
In Italy, especially among those of Campagnolo's ilk, cyclotouring was a pursuit practiced by British, French and German girly-men! /s
Italian bikes came in 2 flavors pedestrian/urban single speed or 3-4 sprocket rear derailleur only models, or... full on racing machines ridden by "uomini d'acciaio" (men of steel).
Witness the original Campy 151 BCD Record cranks with a minimum 44T small chainring. A lot of "racing" bikes from the late 60's through the early 70's came with 52-45T chainrings which were hard to work out smooth ratios that would allow more than 7 distinct gears!
The Campy Record Triple had a 36T small chainring. They could have made a 30T chainring to fit the 100mm BCD pattern but that would have been for wimps. The original triples were most likely produced for tandems! Racing tandems!
It wasn't until the early 1980's when Campagnolo introduced their down market Triomphe, Victory, and Nuovo Gran Sport 116 BCD cranks with a 35T minimum small chainring. The 35T, 36T, 37T, 38T, 39T, 40T and 41T girly-man chainrings were very hard to find because of... availability, maybe???
One reason those cranks didn't sell well is because they were a major departure away from the much copied iconic Campy cranks introduced in 1958. The frumpy 25+ year old design was what Campy buyers looked for.... or why Shimano ate their lunch in the mid-range market!
It wasn't until Campy's ill fated venture into MTB components and the brief era of "racing triples" that they took lower gearing seriously!
Ora che ho lanciato il guanto di sfida !!!
ADDENDUM: I built a number of 1/2 Step Triples - 50-46-30T. They worked great with 6 speed FWs
With the advent of 7 and 8 speed cassettes the Shimano 48-38-28T MTB triples made more sense. Stay on one front chainring and shift the rear sprockets unless you needed to bail on a hill or had a strong tail wind!
verktyg
/s
Italian bikes came in 2 flavors pedestrian/urban single speed or 3-4 sprocket rear derailleur only models, or... full on racing machines ridden by "uomini d'acciaio" (men of steel).
Witness the original Campy 151 BCD Record cranks with a minimum 44T small chainring. A lot of "racing" bikes from the late 60's through the early 70's came with 52-45T chainrings which were hard to work out smooth ratios that would allow more than 7 distinct gears!
The Campy Record Triple had a 36T small chainring. They could have made a 30T chainring to fit the 100mm BCD pattern but that would have been for wimps. The original triples were most likely produced for tandems! Racing tandems!
It wasn't until the early 1980's when Campagnolo introduced their down market Triomphe, Victory, and Nuovo Gran Sport 116 BCD cranks with a 35T minimum small chainring. The 35T, 36T, 37T, 38T, 39T, 40T and 41T girly-man chainrings were very hard to find because of... availability, maybe???
One reason those cranks didn't sell well is because they were a major departure away from the much copied iconic Campy cranks introduced in 1958. The frumpy 25+ year old design was what Campy buyers looked for.... or why Shimano ate their lunch in the mid-range market!
It wasn't until Campy's ill fated venture into MTB components and the brief era of "racing triples" that they took lower gearing seriously!
Ora che ho lanciato il guanto di sfida !!!
ADDENDUM: I built a number of 1/2 Step Triples - 50-46-30T. They worked great with 6 speed FWs
With the advent of 7 and 8 speed cassettes the Shimano 48-38-28T MTB triples made more sense. Stay on one front chainring and shift the rear sprockets unless you needed to bail on a hill or had a strong tail wind!
verktyg
/s
12-16-21 | 11:07 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
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With Craftsman’s downgrading to its current state, I am not certain that the “thin wall” sockets are offered. Lowes pushes the sets of tools and doesn’t seem to focus on single pieces much at all. I’m certain that Proto, Snap-on and the other truck/jobber sold brands will have purpose machined or made sockets that get that application done.
The Campag, “peanut butter”, wrench was well worth the reasonable price found here in the FS sub forum, that I stumbled upon. It’s been much used, and appreciated tool, for my needs.
Bill
The Campag, “peanut butter”, wrench was well worth the reasonable price found here in the FS sub forum, that I stumbled upon. It’s been much used, and appreciated tool, for my needs.
Bill
12-16-21 | 11:19 AM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 17,191
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I'd say, first check the hex of your socket for matching to the hex of the bolt, by measuring across the flats. If the correct size socket doesn't fit, look for an older (30 or 40 years?) Craftsmen socket of the correct size. Most of my sockets are Craftsman of such age, and I have never had problems fitting them onto the bolts of a torqued Campagnolo chainset, new or old..
12-16-21 | 11:21 AM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
With Craftsman’s downgrading to its current state, I am not certain that the “thin wall” sockets are offered. Lowes pushes the sets of tools and doesn’t seem to focus on single pieces much at all. I’m certain that Proto, Snap-on and the other truck/jobber sold brands will have purpose machined or made sockets that get that application done.
The Campag, “peanut butter”, wrench was well worth the reasonable price found here in the FS sub forum, that I stumbled upon. It’s been much used, and appreciated tool, for my needs.
Bill
The Campag, “peanut butter”, wrench was well worth the reasonable price found here in the FS sub forum, that I stumbled upon. It’s been much used, and appreciated tool, for my needs.
Bill
And FWIW, I'm 99.9% sure my old Craftsman sockets are not a special thinwall version, nor are they a special heavy version for impact wrenches.
12-16-21 | 01:19 PM
#30
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Bill
12-17-21 | 06:02 AM
#31
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Park also made single socket "peanut butter" crank bolt wrenches; CCW-14, CCW-15, and CCW-16. The CCW-16 was thin enough to fit a notoriously tight Zeus crank arm and bolt. The 16mm socket on the CCW-2 would not fit.
12-17-21 | 05:59 PM
#34
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I’ll check my sockets, they did work fine for my two NR cranksets. Some of the later, last Sears items, were thicker walled, IIRC. The best level were beefier and had laser size marks. A post above mentioned the 3/8” drive vs 1/2” drive, the 3/8” would be smaller overall. Your impact specific sockets are probably higher strength steel than the hand tool items are/were. My son had the complete sets during his time in his high school auto-tech classes and apprenticeship period. They are now long gone, not much use for a linguist and French instructor at University😏
Bill
Bill
Essentially I only said "mine are good." This self assessment has zero bearing on whether anyone else's home stash items are good. It follows from my point of view that if one needs to buy sockets which will suit, one may have better than random luck if you seek out Craftsman-branded sockets from the late 1960s to late 1970s. That is what I can say.
Within our technology, one can measure the ID of a Campy (or TA or Stronglight) crank arm and set that number as the maximum tolerable OD of a proper bike chainset extraction kit. One can then set a caliper to that size and go the the Local Hardware Store or Big Box, and screen the socket sets that are in the store. Then buy the ones that "pass the qualification test," because you will have very good reasons to expect those to work. I have my memory, but you will have science. If I have to buy new ones that's what I'll do. There probably are other technical requirements, but I'm not a metallurgist.
12-17-21 | 08:38 PM
#35
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Joined: Nov 2020
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The Park CCW-2 is a versatile tool (I've had one for decades) but I find that there is too much chamfer on the sockets, and that the socket wall is unnecessarily thick. If I pulled cranks every week or month (instead of a couple times per year, as I do) I'd want something better. Handy, though, for occasional home mechanics like myself.
12-18-21 | 10:00 AM
#36
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
That's a newer version of the CCW-2 than I'm familiar with. It appears that the 16mm socket on your tool might well fit in a Zeus crank arm. The 16mm socket on the earlier version has a thick weld bead around the base of the 16mm socket, which prevents it from seating in a Zeus crank arm.
12-18-21 | 11:30 AM
#37
ambulatory senior
Joined: Dec 2016
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From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
12-18-21 | 01:09 PM
#38
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From: Montreal, Quebec
This is the Var tool that I bought in 1973 to work on the Campagnolo crank from my Raleigh Pro. The socket is thin walled 15 mm and the other end of the socket has a hex wrench that fits the dustcap
12-19-21 | 12:36 PM
#39
aged to perfection
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From: PacNW
Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc
somebody noted that this is a 3-ring Campagnolo crank setup without the 36t inner ring.
be very careful of the chainring bolts for this combo ! will be very difficult (or expensive) to find another set.
/markp
be very careful of the chainring bolts for this combo ! will be very difficult (or expensive) to find another set.
/markp
12-20-21 | 12:51 PM
#40
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
The bolts for the 1049/3 crank are not common, but triple length mounting bolts from e.g. Stronglight or Sakae Ringyo will work. The bolts for the inner ring of the 1049/5 are more difficult to source, as they comprise a special stand-off piece and Allen nut to secure the ring at the proper distance. I have heard, but cannt verify, that Avocet triple inner ring mounting hardware will work with the Campagnolo 1049-5 triple. In my experience, the Avocet hardware can be nearly as difficult to source as the Campagnolo.
