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Has demand dropped?

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Has demand dropped?

Old 08-28-23, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Yeah, but in about 15 years, it'll be cyborgs, who are really into the elegance and simplicity of vintage steel. So it all comes around.
Yeah, but I don’t relish the conflict between cyborgs made of steel and those made of carbon fiber.
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Old 08-28-23, 03:52 PM
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Used cars right now are where the market insanity is. 150,000+ miles on a modest ten-year-old+ car with a $15,000+/- asking price. I am seeing many more cars on the road, and fewer bikes being ridden. The crazy thing is how bike buying gets to be somewhat of a fad that comes and goes over the years. The reality of cycling being a physical activity probably sets in quickly. I've bought some great bikes on the cheap over the last couple of years ago. I wish I had had them 15 years ago!
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Old 08-28-23, 06:42 PM
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I just bought a 1985 Norco Magnum GT in very nice condition for 200 on FB Marketplace, I was wondering why after one week it was still for sale. I just happened upon it not really considering another bike as I have four and only so much room but I found myself quite enamoured with this particular one, plus it was in my size.

Not that long ago I am certain it would have sold quickly, if only so someone could flip it.




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Old 08-28-23, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac


Of course it has and will continue.

Could care less about supply or demand, never planned to make any money and don't care what I pay on this, not a loss, price of admission, every penny well spent if I get what I want or need.

There needs to be a separate forum for buying, selling, flipping, hand wringing, etc. IMO.

And I understand many here fund the hobby by doing so and are good at that aspect of it but if that's the the benchmark then be realistic, its not an exact science and you will not always make money or get it to pay for itself.

If $$$$$ are that important, learn the stock market, financial investing, etc.

Putting the $$$$$$ first sucks the fun right out of it for me and don't get me wrong, I love a good deal as much as anybody but I consider it a bonus that maybe helps a bit for ones that I spent dearly on, not a money making deal but a money saving deal.
Those of us with limited storage coupled with limited but loving understanding on the part of the CFO, care about the money somewhat because: N+1 must eventually lead to N-1 and the next N+1 can only be justified if we can report at least nearly breaking even with the N-1. I'm seeing deals on models that I haven't yet tasted and I need to let last years riders go -- but not at significant loss. So the market has me stuck with some really nice bikes Money is not first but it is part of the game for me.
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Old 08-28-23, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Those of us with limited storage coupled with limited but loving understanding on the part of the CFO, care about the money somewhat because: N+1 must eventually lead to N-1 and the next N+1 can only be justified if we can report at least nearly breaking even with the N-1. I'm seeing deals on models that I haven't yet tasted and I need to let last years riders go -- but not at significant loss. So the market has me stuck with some really nice bikes Money is not first but it is part of the game for me.
Oh I get it and whole heartedly agree, just haven't leaned in so hard that I can't bail if need be without catastrophic consequences for the most part.

There's a lot of paint but the corner is still pretty big too.
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Old 08-28-23, 10:11 PM
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I ran out of storage space a long time ago. I still have a couple of frames I want to build up in the next year or so but I'm not looking to add anything to the herd.
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Old 08-29-23, 01:51 PM
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I'm not worried so much about value, profitability when selling, etc. - but I do worry about the loss of knowledge when it comes to C&V bikes. I'm always amazed by the human encyclopedias we have here and while I've learned a lot, I'll never have that level of knowledge of having grown up around these bikes, working in shops, etc. It's a shame that in the future it'll be very difficult to learn from previous experience as there are fewer people interested to pass down to.
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Old 08-29-23, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageRide
I was wondering why after one week it was still for sale... I found myself quite enamoured with this particular one...

I can understand. Looks NOS!
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Old 08-29-23, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
People born in the 60's-70's-80's will buy some nice steel road, aluminium or titanium road bikes and mountain bikes from the late 80's-90's-00's which were some of their dream bikes.Ebay is also the place if you hunt well. Most of my builds will be neo retro except one. For the generation for in th 90's-00's , it will be carbon or aluminium frames that will await for them alongwith DI2 or SRAM Etap.
i don’t think it’s quite that simple - whether you have an affinity for old bikes has more to do with whether you were interested in bikes a long time ago, not whether you were alive a long time ago.

the bike boom during covid added a lot of new cyclists, most of whom have no fond memories or affinity for older bikes - if anything, they were annoyed by the rise and fall of lance, and maybe by getting stuck on a winding road behind a group ride.

i am not sure if there’s a new generation of riders waiting to be found who will appreciate old bikes, the way, say, vinyl was resurrected.
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Old 08-29-23, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
i don’t think it’s quite that simple - whether you have an affinity for old bikes has more to do with whether you were interested in bikes a long time ago, not whether you were alive a long time ago.

the bike boom during covid added a lot of new cyclists, most of whom have no fond memories or affinity for older bikes - if anything, they were annoyed by the rise and fall of lance, and maybe by getting stuck on a winding road behind a group ride.

i am not sure if there’s a new generation of riders waiting to be found who will appreciate old bikes, the way, say, vinyl was resurrected.
All worried about basic demand. demand is very elastic.
the macro economic trends are consumer confidence in the USA is wobbly.
‘that will eventually will even out and rise.
‘when that happens and bike demand stays depressed, Ok, worry.
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Old 08-29-23, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleheimer
Used cars right now are where the market insanity is. 150,000+ miles on a modest ten-year-old+ car with a $15,000+/- asking price.
It would not surprise me if it was reported that on forums for golf clubs, guitars or bone china, there are ongoing topics about crazy asking prices on eBay and Craigslist, etc. Is perhaps the modern approach to think, "hey, I do not care if it takes two years to sell, as long as I get a lot of money for it"? And, hmm, am I just imagining that far fewer eBay listings include the "make offer" option? If so, maybe sellers might not notice for quite some time that demand has dropped -- if it has.
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Old 08-29-23, 06:33 PM
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The last banner year was 2013, in 2014 I saw a drop in values. Before the 2015 season I sold everything of value. Around 2017 2018 I had some epic 'mystery box' giveaways. Not only has the resale market died but the source market has dried up.
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Old 08-29-23, 07:44 PM
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Has demand dropped off?

Are you kidding me? Demand has dropped off a cliff.

My coffee can was full of $100 dollar bills back during the quaruntine. I was selling two bikes a week at one point. That's over now. Been over for quite a while.

I've been donating bikes to charity. And, repairing bikes at the low income day care center. Haven't sold a bike in over a year at least. Nobody is going to pay $350 or so for a fully refurbished old bike when you can buy a brand new 2023 bike for $400.

Keep collecting. Be good. Have fun. It will all come around again sooner or later.

Love,

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Old 08-29-23, 08:25 PM
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There was an interesting bike locally to me that I wanted to pick up. Was originally listed for $500, then dropped to $250. The same day I was going to go pick it up, I didn't hear back from the seller, so I went home instead of going out of my way on a chance. Good thing too, because when I got home I had a message waiting for me that the seller found out it was more valuable than he thought, so he called off our deal and relisted it for like $1300 or something. In my head I'm sort of thinking 'Wait, didn't you have to drop it to $250 because nobody bought it at $500?' but we'll see what happens. If the seller decides to drop it back down to $250 again after no interest, I told him to reach out to me
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Old 08-29-23, 09:42 PM
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Rim braked wheels just ain't selling. Nobody wants rim braked bikes at any price.
If it is selling, then, it's tubeless or nothing. Nobody wants tubes. Nobody wants narrow rims. Tubulars are worse. Down tube shifters are the mark of death.

The standards have changed enough, frequently enough people are leery of even dipping their toes in the water for fear of relieving someone else of their "junk" or being bamboozled by their own ignorance. People are so dazzled by what's good & what isn't with no idea of why...They are rightly skeptical of the whole lot.

I had a 2016(?) Salsa Vaya, IS mount disc and quick release...I tried to give away for free. It was politely refused. The market is dead.

The way I see it: The ultra-enthusiasts are buying the newest, New, factory direct. Nobody is willing to risk buying anybody else's used (& probably broken) anything.
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Old 08-29-23, 10:33 PM
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The way I look at it there are two markets being discussed here. First being the current bicycle market including used late model performance bicycles. This market ebbs and flows with the sports popularity.

C&V is separate from the above as it’s typically fueled by demographic drivers. The current desire for mid 70”s to late 80’s bikes is from people who finally have the funds and time to pick up items lusted after years ago yet unaffordable by the part time jobs or paper routes at the time. These people are aging out of the sport and have acquired their fill. These collections number from the dozens to hundreds of bikes and all will be released into a soft market for decades to come. Like previously mentioned it’s a great time for those who wish to continue to acquire and collect not so much if the intent to view this as a investment of any sort.
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Old 08-30-23, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by base2

The standards have changed enough, frequently enough people are leery of even dipping their toes in the water for fear of relieving someone else of their "junk" or being bamboozled by their own ignorance. People are so dazzled by what's good & what isn't with no idea of why...They are rightly skeptical of the whole lot.
I think you make an important point. I am finding most people now do not have any interest in learning anything mechanical. When I was younger I did not have the spare money to have someone else service my car or motorbike, I had to learn and do it myself (lol, I still don’t have the spare money!).

Without a rudimentary knowledge of anything mechanical they do not know if they are being taken for a ride, so they trust bigger brand names, I mean, bigger companies are more honest, right (watch the netflix mini series called “Painkiller” about the oxycontin scandal!)?

I know a young lad who has a new car on finance because he can will do nothing on it himself. When he moans about the price of what it will cost when he has a problem and I offer to fix it, he will always make an excuse and take it to the dealer (lol,no reflection on my abilities I hasten to add!).

I think it has always been so, but not to the degree it is now. Most of life is now electrical/electronic, mechanical things are a rarity in modern life.

The bicycle embodies everything mechanical that has passed, the E-bike is more familier to the newer generation, they trust it, because it has that “E” in the name,
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Old 08-30-23, 05:11 AM
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I think it is up to us to be stewards for promoting the simplicity of CV bikes. As I have given away all of those student bikes, a lot of them vintage steel, I try to talk about how they are workable and durable pieces of history. some listen.

As far as the market, I think three factors work against CV
1. Aging CV market
2. Post CoVID bike dumping creating a huge supply increase (if they got the bug with the decent economy after COVId they may have gone modern)
3. Bike shops now have supply. And it dampened prices for new bikes.
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Old 08-30-23, 08:05 AM
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In my recent experience, high end truly collectible stuff is still selling at a good price. I moved two very expensive bikes last week at the asking price very quickly.

Mid-level stuff- you know, solid performer, great condition, will last forever, sub $500 price point- is moving very slowly. Witness the lovely Voyageur I have posted in the FS section. It's also posted on CL and FM- not even a scammer contact.

Bike store stuff below the super-high-end is pretty much on sale. I get e-mails every day offering big price reductions on name brand bikes. Also just bought a 20" geared bike for the youngest grandson. Store price matched without a second thought at about a 25% discount.

So, there's that.
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Old 08-30-23, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by awac
I think you make an important point. I am finding most people now do not have any interest in learning anything mechanical. When I was younger I did not have the spare money to have someone else service my car or motorbike, I had to learn and do it myself (lol, I still don’t have the spare money!).

Without a rudimentary knowledge of anything mechanical they do not know if they are being taken for a ride, so they trust bigger brand names, I mean, bigger companies are more honest, right (watch the netflix mini series called “Painkiller” about the oxycontin scandal!)?

I know a young lad who has a new car on finance because he can will do nothing on it himself. When he moans about the price of what it will cost when he has a problem and I offer to fix it, he will always make an excuse and take it to the dealer (lol,no reflection on my abilities I hasten to add!).

I think it has always been so, but not to the degree it is now. Most of life is now electrical/electronic, mechanical things are a rarity in modern life.

The bicycle embodies everything mechanical that has passed, the E-bike is more familier to the newer generation, they trust it, because it has that “E” in the name,
the young zipping around on their ebikes in the neighborhood do so because it is less physical effort. Parents indulge as they have the money, “everybody” has an ebike and the city is quite hilly.
portends an overweight future.

I guess all should embrace the “steampunk” it’s mechanical, no hiding. Of course, really mess them up and show how a Campagnolo Cambio Corsa shifts, or one of the other very early shifting schemes.
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Old 08-30-23, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
In my recent experience, high end truly collectible stuff is still selling at a good price. I moved two very expensive bikes last week at the asking price very quickly.

Mid-level stuff- you know, solid performer, great condition, will last forever, sub $500 price point- is moving very slowly. Witness the lovely Voyageur I have posted in the FS section. It's also posted on CL and FM- not even a scammer contact.

Bike store stuff below the super-high-end is pretty much on sale. I get e-mails every day offering big price reductions on name brand bikes. Also just bought a 20" geared bike for the youngest grandson. Store price matched without a second thought at about a 25% discount.

So, there's that.
I agree with this. The stuff that is truly collectable, is still up there. I don't see that stuff dropping in price any time soon. But I'll be watching regardless.

I've been able to sell everything I've listed but you have to be willing to drop the price. I've been on the other side of the deals and it feels good to get a good one, so pass it along.

But really, who cares, do your math on what something is worth to you and buy what you like accordingly. If you're riding a bike, it's hard to not get your monies worth from the experience and benefits.

I'm hoping to get a bicycle this weekend, initially listed at 1k, and to me, not worth it, but price drop to 500 and now I'm in. Similar bike just got listed for 3k on ebay, so I'm looking forward to seeing that listing in my notifications for a while, or at least until they get real about the price.
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Old 08-30-23, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
In my recent experience, high end truly collectible stuff is still selling at a good price. I moved two very expensive bikes last week at the asking price very quickly.
So, there's that.
This.
Recent two $1500+ bikes. Vintage lightweights still have a pulse. One shipped to a private collector with a nice collection, ironically a non BF member. Another to a shop owner for his own vintage mountain bike collection. Both shipped cross country.

Additionally, correct and original Paramount and PX10 fill collections and steady in the $1200 range. They have to be rightly honest original. Repaints and restomods are way down.

Always have those interested in $2k to $2500 vintage bikes but this level priced never were highly active traded.

I enjoy all kind of bikes and doesn't matter whether selling or not. Was a hoot finding hoards the past 3 years and flipping in volume. Truthful, the percentage of jerks wanting bikes for pittance are a PITA. I always refer them to Walmart.
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Old 08-30-23, 11:10 AM
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We usually get the Burning man crowd looking for cheap bikes but I guess it has even turned to Walmart instead of dealing with resellers. Probably a good thing because some nice bikes were getting dumped up there.
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Old 08-30-23, 11:25 AM
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Yep, the price of used bikes have gone down. I walked into one shop to sell my old bike. "Nope", I was told. "We're way overstocked in road bikes". Even Electric bikes are taken a hit right now. Hold on to you hats, boy. It's going to be a rough season for used bikes.
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Old 08-30-23, 05:03 PM
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Generation E for e-bikes.
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