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Has demand dropped?

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Has demand dropped?

Old 08-30-23, 09:23 PM
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On the bright side, if you dare to call it that, a functioning bicycle is utilitarian. A tool that is practical, useful and requires no gas or electricity to function.
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Old 08-30-23, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Colorado Kid
Yep, the price of used bikes have gone down. I walked into one shop to sell my old bike. "Nope", I was told. "We're way overstocked in road bikes". Even Electric bikes are taken a hit right now. Hold on to you hats, boy. It's going to be a rough season for used bikes.
Doom for The Pro’s Closet.
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Old 08-31-23, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Doom for The Pro’s Closet.
They had a 2018 Emonda SLR in the 62cm size, which is perfect for me. Last year and well into this year it was $1900, then recently it dropped to $1300 and then to $900. Frameset was immaculate. Rim brake, super light, top spec, just what I was looking for in modern carbon. $900 was a solid sell price and it didn't last long. Maybe one day when I grow up I'll spend money all at once on a bike instead of the death-by-a-thousand-lesser-purchases I have employed so far... Kidding, I'll still do that.
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Old 08-31-23, 02:07 AM
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I prefer to buy a nice frame and do à la carte build rather than spending money on a new bike that doesn't do it for me or isn't up to my tastes. Even if it is more expensive to make bike builds I would rather do it because you can chose the components you like and personalize the builds to your own tastes, refinements and needs. On the second hand market there are plenty of good deals to be made if you hunt and search well for bike parts, frames and complete bikes.

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Old 08-31-23, 07:13 AM
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First off, a hearty "Thanks!" for starting this topic, as it's something I've been wondering about myself. I stumbled into C&V about six years ago, and it didn't take long to discover that parting out bikes was more profitable than rehabbing them locally. Was I always into it for the money? No, but I'm a stay-at-home parent and selling on Ebay let me contribute to the household income, and made my wife happy with not having strangers come to the house to test ride bikes, etc. Plus I got to sample a lot of neat bikes for myself.

Anyways, this year my sales are down a solid 30% compared to last year, it's like a switch got flipped and demand dissipated, it was pretty abrupt. The good stuff still sells - Campy, Dura-Ace, Superbe - but at lower prices than in the past. The decent, mid-level stuff (Ultegra/105/Rival) just sits or you give it away for cheap. Anything below that, forgetaboutit. BMX is still crazy, if you can find it (though Old School has shifted to Mid-School), and vintage lugged mountain does well too, though mostly to fuel the BMX guys. Road bikes are down, unless it's top shelf stuff. Touring bike frames will eventually sell, but not like they have in the past.

I live in Wisconsin - Trekland - and I've seen decent vintage steel Treks just sit at prices that would've been snatched up in years past. I don't buy those great deals for $50-150 because I can't make anything on them parting them out, whereas before I would buy whatever I could to stuff my shed full of bikes to part out over our long winter. Now, my shed is empty. I've become much more picky about buying anything vintage, and I've been trying to buy newer stuff, but it's more expensive and the margins aren't like it was on the old stuff before. It seems like there's a strong demand for disc/tubeless bikes, and as such there are a ton of great, even high end, rim brake offerings that languish on the market. I find ok deals on CL but more on Marketplace.

As has already been stated, I think the original target demographic is aging out the market and switching to eBikes, if they are riding at all. By and large, the younger folks don't want rim brake, down tube shifters, quill stems regardless of tire clearance - they'd rather spend a little more and get a brand new (gravel) specimen. As a consequence, they don't need parts to upgrade or repair their vintage ride because they don't have one. I think the segment of mature "active" buyers who still ride and care about C&V stuff may still upgrade and repair their bikes, but you lot are pretty cheap because you can afford to be patient. You'll make your crazy lowball Best Offers and I'll probably accept it!

Personally, I love the aesthetic of vintage road bikes but I don't ride them much anymore myself as I don't ride on the road all that often. When I do, I have a Salsa Vaya with a very upright position that I prefer. I've mostly switched to mountain biking and am having a blast riding through the woods on my Surly fat tire bike.

Be good, have fun, and ride what you like - whatever it is - but just keep riding as long as you are able.
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Old 08-31-23, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by friendofpugs
First off, a hearty "Thanks!" for starting this topic, as it's something I've been wondering about myself. I stumbled into C&V about six years ago, and it didn't take long to discover that parting out bikes was more profitable than rehabbing them locally. Was I always into it for the money? No, but I'm a stay-at-home parent and selling on Ebay let me contribute to the household income, and made my wife happy with not having strangers come to the house to test ride bikes, etc. Plus I got to sample a lot of neat bikes for myself.

Anyways, this year my sales are down a solid 30% compared to last year, it's like a switch got flipped and demand dissipated, it was pretty abrupt. The good stuff still sells - Campy, Dura-Ace, Superbe - but at lower prices than in the past. The decent, mid-level stuff (Ultegra/105/Rival) just sits or you give it away for cheap. Anything below that, forgetaboutit. BMX is still crazy, if you can find it (though Old School has shifted to Mid-School), and vintage lugged mountain does well too, though mostly to fuel the BMX guys. Road bikes are down, unless it's top shelf stuff. Touring bike frames will eventually sell, but not like they have in the past.

I live in Wisconsin - Trekland - and I've seen decent vintage steel Treks just sit at prices that would've been snatched up in years past. I don't buy those great deals for $50-150 because I can't make anything on them parting them out, whereas before I would buy whatever I could to stuff my shed full of bikes to part out over our long winter. Now, my shed is empty. I've become much more picky about buying anything vintage, and I've been trying to buy newer stuff, but it's more expensive and the margins aren't like it was on the old stuff before. It seems like there's a strong demand for disc/tubeless bikes, and as such there are a ton of great, even high end, rim brake offerings that languish on the market. I find ok deals on CL but more on Marketplace.

As has already been stated, I think the original target demographic is aging out the market and switching to eBikes, if they are riding at all. By and large, the younger folks don't want rim brake, down tube shifters, quill stems regardless of tire clearance - they'd rather spend a little more and get a brand new (gravel) specimen. As a consequence, they don't need parts to upgrade or repair their vintage ride because they don't have one. I think the segment of mature "active" buyers who still ride and care about C&V stuff may still upgrade and repair their bikes, but you lot are pretty cheap because you can afford to be patient. You'll make your crazy lowball Best Offers and I'll probably accept it!

Personally, I love the aesthetic of vintage road bikes but I don't ride them much anymore myself as I don't ride on the road all that often. When I do, I have a Salsa Vaya with a very upright position that I prefer. I've mostly switched to mountain biking and am having a blast riding through the woods on my Surly fat tire bike.

Be good, have fun, and ride what you like - whatever it is - but just keep riding as long as you are able.
This is the definitive answer. We can probably close the thread now.
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Old 08-31-23, 08:16 AM
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Newbie here. Thanks for educating me on the pitfalls. I get it. This thread helps.

I fall into that old guy with time on his hands and mechanical aptitude. We are fading.

I will allow that sellers on FB Marketplace, eBay and CL are delusional. Pitting rust requires sales of under $50 no matter WHAT it is.

I've learned to pay a bit more for restorable (read: clean, buff, and polish) than acquire rust. There is lots of rust out there.
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Old 08-31-23, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by friendofpugs
First off, a hearty "Thanks!" for starting this topic, as it's something I've been wondering about myself. I stumbled into C&V about six years ago, and it didn't take long to discover that parting out bikes was more profitable than rehabbing them locally. Was I always into it for the money? No, but I'm a stay-at-home parent and selling on Ebay let me contribute to the household income, and made my wife happy with not having strangers come to the house to test ride bikes, etc. Plus I got to sample a lot of neat bikes for myself.

Anyways, this year my sales are down a solid 30% compared to last year, it's like a switch got flipped and demand dissipated, it was pretty abrupt. The good stuff still sells - Campy, Dura-Ace, Superbe - but at lower prices than in the past. The decent, mid-level stuff (Ultegra/105/Rival) just sits or you give it away for cheap. Anything below that, forgetaboutit. BMX is still crazy, if you can find it (though Old School has shifted to Mid-School), and vintage lugged mountain does well too, though mostly to fuel the BMX guys. Road bikes are down, unless it's top shelf stuff. Touring bike frames will eventually sell, but not like they have in the past.

I live in Wisconsin - Trekland - and I've seen decent vintage steel Treks just sit at prices that would've been snatched up in years past. I don't buy those great deals for $50-150 because I can't make anything on them parting them out, whereas before I would buy whatever I could to stuff my shed full of bikes to part out over our long winter. Now, my shed is empty. I've become much more picky about buying anything vintage, and I've been trying to buy newer stuff, but it's more expensive and the margins aren't like it was on the old stuff before. It seems like there's a strong demand for disc/tubeless bikes, and as such there are a ton of great, even high end, rim brake offerings that languish on the market. I find ok deals on CL but more on Marketplace.

As has already been stated, I think the original target demographic is aging out the market and switching to eBikes, if they are riding at all. By and large, the younger folks don't want rim brake, down tube shifters, quill stems regardless of tire clearance - they'd rather spend a little more and get a brand new (gravel) specimen. As a consequence, they don't need parts to upgrade or repair their vintage ride because they don't have one. I think the segment of mature "active" buyers who still ride and care about C&V stuff may still upgrade and repair their bikes, but you lot are pretty cheap because you can afford to be patient. You'll make your crazy lowball Best Offers and I'll probably accept it!

Personally, I love the aesthetic of vintage road bikes but I don't ride them much anymore myself as I don't ride on the road all that often. When I do, I have a Salsa Vaya with a very upright position that I prefer. I've mostly switched to mountain biking and am having a blast riding through the woods on my Surly fat tire bike.

Be good, have fun, and ride what you like - whatever it is - but just keep riding as long as you are able.

For someone that participates in this hobby to generate revenue (even just to support the hobby), things are looking pretty dim.

On the flipside however, if you are a rider that appreciates at the very top of all things, ultimately, the superb ride quality of some of the nicest lugged bikes ever made, but have since fallen out of favor due to no E-assist, no disc brakes, etc., then there is almost no better time to be alive.

We are entering a golden era.
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Old 08-31-23, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kunsunoke
The demand curve is back to normal. There's no lock-downs from Wuhan Coronavirus anymore. The hipsters that used to buy old bikes at inflated prices are either completely broke (having been cut off of the trust fund dollars) or have become respectable and/or have kids. E-bikes are the next big thing, since fixed gears aren't going to cut it when you've gained 20-50 pounds from inactivity and too much PBR.

eBay USA is no longer a good source for C&V items at reasonable prices. It has been supplanted by eBay.fr, eBay.it, eBay.es and eBay.co.uk in that regard. tldr - If you want to get good deals, learn a romance language.
Yup, I won a couple of eBay auctions from eBay.fr last year and both sellers cancelled the deal because they did not want to he bothered by the cost of shipping to the US.
So, yes, there's a lot of reasonably priced C&V stuff in the EU and UK, but shipping cost is a big hurdle that's hard to avoid.
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Old 08-31-23, 01:08 PM
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@friendofpugs

Great summary, rationale and perspective.

Sounds like you have it well sorted and I would posit that %30 drop is not as catastrophic as many here would believe although I suspect they are experiencing much more.

Granted %30 is straight off the top but reasonable if sustainable without redoubling your effort, if you're already too close to the rivet then it may not pencil out.

The easy money, that I was still too lazy, busy, distracted to chase is gone for the time being at least.

Those here wishing they were getting in now would be out of luck on the really good stuff that is delusionally priced and still diluted by much of the stuff we already got and have.

Many of mine would be insane prices now if even available, glad I got most of them when I did and have them now.
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Old 08-31-23, 02:20 PM
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I have never collected items just to own them, so I am probably the wrong person to weigh into this discussion or perhaps best suited! The C&V market is based on acquiring an item in perceived limited supply. There are tens of thousands of premium vintage bicycles in basements, garages and sheds, which rotate amongst decreasing demand, and prices can only go down. Please speak to any under-40-year-old cyclists about their collection, and it consists of a pragmatic group of usable current technology bikes. To expect these persons to start buying up dozens or, in some cases, hundreds of vintage bikes to place them in storage is unreasonable. It is also unreasonable to expect cyclists who have evolved riding modern technology bikes to transition to C&V bikes for their regular ride. For those who love collecting, enjoy this period of your life. Some regular posters on this forum have better bike collections than the inventories available at the best bike shops in the world in their heyday. All these bikes will return on the market within the next 10 - 15 years.
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Old 08-31-23, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
…All these bikes will return on the market within the next 10 - 15 years.
Nah, I’m gonna build a pyramid and take ‘em with me like Tut did.

Then I’m gonna race the devil and he’s gonna lay the Pope’s golden ‘Nago at my feet.
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Old 08-31-23, 04:01 PM
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Has demand dropped?
Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?
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Old 08-31-23, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
I prefer to buy a nice frame and do à la carte build rather than spending money on a new bike that doesn't do it for me or isn't up to my tastes. Even if it is more expensive to make bike builds I would rather do it because you can chose the components you like and personalize the builds to your own tastes, refinements and needs. On the second hand market there are plenty of good deals to be made if you hunt and search well for bike parts, frames and complete bikes.
This has certainly been and will continue to be my M.O. I do truly enjoy it. I imagine this is the same for many of us here.
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Old 08-31-23, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Please speak to any under-40-year-old cyclists about their collection, and it consists of a pragmatic group of usable current technology bikes. To expect these persons to start buying up dozens or, in some cases, hundreds of vintage bikes to place them in storage is unreasonable. It is also unreasonable to expect cyclists who have evolved riding modern technology bikes to transition to C&V bikes for their regular ride.
We agree on something! To my 17 year old and his disc braked, 29er 1x, my Cinelli is a mere curiosity, like the Black Phantom was to me in the 1980s. But as you know, I couldn’t care less about most of today’s technology. And since I’m not in this segment of the hobby to make money, I’d have no problem if the bottom fell out.
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Old 08-31-23, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
We agree on something! To my 17 year old and his disc braked, 29er 1x, my Cinelli is a mere curiosity, like the Black Phantom was to me in the 1980s. But as you know, I couldn’t care less about most of today’s technology. And since I’m not in this segment of the hobby to make money, I’d have no problem if the bottom fell out.
We also agree your Cinelli is stunning!
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Old 09-01-23, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Those of us with limited storage coupled with limited but loving understanding on the part of the CFO, care about the money somewhat because: N+1 must eventually lead to N-1 and the next N+1 can only be justified if we can report at least nearly breaking even with the N-1. I'm seeing deals on models that I haven't yet tasted and I need to let last years riders go -- but not at significant loss. So the market has me stuck with some really nice bikes Money is not first but it is part of the game for me.
Valid points - In my situation, the COO keeps track of the finished inventory in "my" garage and the unfinished in "her" yard. There's a fine balance. As a retired business owner, I also have to battle the 35 years of profitability conditioning
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Old 09-01-23, 08:39 AM
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Tangential to the current discussion, I suppose, but I wonder how a 50-year-old carbon fiber frame would hold up against a 50-year-old steel frame…?
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Old 09-01-23, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
I wonder how a 50-year-old carbon fiber frame would hold up against a 50-year-old steel frame…?
That's a rhetorical question, right?
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Old 09-01-23, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel

Maybe one day when I grow up I'll spend money all at once on a bike instead of the death-by-a-thousand-lesser-purchases I have employed so far... Kidding, I'll still do that.
I can sure relate to this statement. Honestly, I do not regret having gone the route I did. I would like to go down to 2 bikes, but, I have a couple of issues doing that. First, I like riding all 5 bikes and cannot commit to selling any of them. The second ties into the first, and the subject of this post. Looking at the prices of what I would be likely to get for any of the bikes, makes me think I should just hang on to all of them. The hassle of putting them on the market, dealing with prospective buyers, and the preparing to ship and actual cost of shipping, makes me think the return value on the bikes is not worth it. The 3 bikes I would likely let go might net $2000, likely a high estimate, that is not going to make any difference in my life. If I had another bike, or set of wheels, that I felt I just had to have, maybe it would be worth it for that. That, likely, is not going to happen.
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Old 09-01-23, 10:02 AM
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Great thread for me to read as I’ve just recently returned to bicycling after an over decade hiatus. Keep it up all.

I have found myself with an appetite that feels unquenchable for perusing classifieds for that perfect bike. No, I haven’t found it yet……
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Old 09-01-23, 10:28 AM
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Yep, the party's over

Good thing that I only buy stuff in my size...

Bad thing is that I can't help but check CL and others and I'm amazed at the great deals....
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Old 09-01-23, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by IdahoBrett
Great thread for me to read as I’ve just recently returned to bicycling after an over decade hiatus. Keep it up all.

I have found myself with an appetite that feels unquenchable for perusing classifieds for that perfect bike. No, I haven’t found it yet……
Just keep buying, it will help distract you and eventually spin you off in other directions finding a ton of stuff you never knew you wanted.

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Old 09-01-23, 12:40 PM
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As a CV relative new person, i started buying with great fervor, iv'e picked up some nice stuff i have 12 or so bikes 7 built and 5 to build, i ride what takes my fancy but currently i am riding my Trek 500 which will come with me to L'Eroica Cali.. my wife will be bringing her 1982 Trek 613 with straight bars and a front triple...

id like to sell/dispose of a few but iv'e all but given up on here, you lot are a bunch of cheap *astards lol the only ones looking are we/us and we already have lots of bikes... i currently have a Puch Luzerne frame in black which is in very good shape, i stripped it of its grouppo Shimano 600 arabesque and will likely donate the frame although i'm reluctant to do that, i also stripped a rough looking Raleigh Comp GS for its Grouppo which is mostly Campy gran Sport to build my Trek 937 frame i bought on here, i guess the Gran Sport and the Puch have value both are 531, but shipping ugggg the cost has gone up to where it kills these good but what i consider mid grade frames/bikes ... i think the only hope is to offer them for shipping plus $50 for packing to get them to a good home.. Trouble is for $50.00 i have to go to the local bike shop get a box, pack the frame arrange shipping do a packing job drop it off to fedex, its hardly worth it for $50.00 easier to just drop them off at the local bike co-op.

Roll on retirement 12 months or so for me...!!!
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Old 09-01-23, 02:26 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Gary12000
for $50.00, i have to go to the local bike shop get a box, pack the frame, arrange shipping, do a packing job, drop it off to fedex...
Let the buyer arrange shipping with bikeflights, send you a label, and the carrier will pick it up at your place on the day you choose.
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