Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Cotter Pin Question

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Cotter Pin Question

Old 02-23-24, 01:07 PM
  #1  
Standard Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,266

Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1296 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 490 Posts
Cotter Pin Question

I got new cotters, and they are in tight, and the nuts on the threaded end are engaged (one side fully, the other side caught only 2 or 3 threads, but did snug-up). I have 10mm of the non-threaded end visible on each crank. Should I go ahead and sand/file a little off the diagonal face of the pin, to get it to push farther through before I put the nut on? 10mm looks like too much visible.
__________________
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.
1989Pre is offline  
Old 02-23-24, 01:26 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,251
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3806 Post(s)
Liked 3,331 Times in 2,173 Posts
-----

you've got an asymmetry somewhere

the pins may not be identical

the crank arms may not be a match

when the difference is in the pins then the usual procedure is to file the cut on the pin with the lighter cut

another thing you can check when the pins are in this state is the opposition of the crank arms -
they may not be a symmetric one hundred eighty degrees...

---

here is one that will sound silly at first -

sometimes if a wedgebolt has worked loose in the past the combination of play and the torque of pedaling can gall up the walls of the wedgebolt hole in the head of the arm

rare, but takes only a moment to check for this


-----

Last edited by juvela; 02-23-24 at 08:22 PM. Reason: spellin''
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 02-23-24, 03:46 PM
  #3  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,053
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3015 Post(s)
Liked 3,792 Times in 1,406 Posts
A picture would help.

I like exposed threads after all is said and done.

Frejus 40 by iabisdb, on Flickr
iab is offline  
Old 02-23-24, 04:50 PM
  #4  
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,858

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2930 Post(s)
Liked 2,923 Times in 1,491 Posts
Nice crank!
__________________
One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 02-23-24, 05:13 PM
  #5  
Standard Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,266

Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1296 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 490 Posts
I sanded one pin down and they are now about equal, with 10mm of the non threaded side sticking out. They're tight, so I'll just leave it. A new camera is on the way, my old one is broken.
__________________
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.

Last edited by 1989Pre; 02-23-24 at 07:19 PM.
1989Pre is offline  
Old 02-23-24, 07:26 PM
  #6  
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,858

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2930 Post(s)
Liked 2,923 Times in 1,491 Posts
Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Why do you have to be such an *******? Can you answer me that?
well look at….it’s a nice looking crankset.



I think it’s from the Marines all that hot Sun at Parris Island and the flightline in Yuma.
__________________
One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 02-25-24, 06:51 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wilmette, IL
Posts: 6,880
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times in 351 Posts
Cotter pins and social media, nothing good can come of it when these two things are brought together.

Except maybe a picture of a "nice crank" showing what a properly installed cotter looks like. Well done iab. And I agree.. nice crank.
big chainring is offline  
Likes For big chainring:
Old 02-25-24, 08:06 AM
  #8  
Standard Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,266

Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1296 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 490 Posts
Originally Posted by big chainring
Cotter pins and social media, nothing good can come of it when these two things are brought together.

Except maybe a picture of a "nice crank" showing what a properly installed cotter looks like. Well done iab. And I agree.. nice crank.
So Bianchigirl was actually replying to iab, and not me? Maybe it is best to hit "quote" when one wants to reply to a specific comment, instead of it appearing to be directed to the O.P. What is this, just laziness? Now, I'm tempted to feel like I over-reacted, but can we agree on this one guideline?

Exactly. iab has stated that some thread should be showing. This is my belief and experience, as well. So, here we get to see my original post again:

"I got new cotters, and they are in tight, and the nuts on the threaded end are engaged (one side fully, the other side caught only 2 or 3 threads, but did snug-up). I have 10mm of the non-threaded end visible on each crank. Should I go ahead and sand/file a little off the diagonal face of the pin, to get it to push farther through before I put the nut on? 10mm looks like too much visible."
There are no threads visible on either pin. The threaded section comes about flush with the outside of the nut.

Anyone who can give me a direct answer is welcome.
__________________
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.

Last edited by 1989Pre; 02-25-24 at 08:10 AM.
1989Pre is offline  
Old 02-25-24, 09:22 AM
  #9  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,053
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3015 Post(s)
Liked 3,792 Times in 1,406 Posts
Well, to get pedantic.

Bianchigirl's reply was directly after my post, and quite frankly, mine is a nice crank. A bit of thread drift, yes, but so it goes.

And what I wrote concerning cotters is a preference, it is neither right or wrong. I also have about 10mm of cotter showing but plenty of threads too. There are crank and cotter variables that can change the answer, that is why I requested a picture. juvela used words to make the same point. Bottom line, if the crank is secure, the job was done right. Carryon.
iab is offline  
Likes For iab:
Old 02-28-24, 10:28 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,749

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked 672 Times in 420 Posts
Originally Posted by 1989Pre
.......What is this, just laziness?
you mean like not taking the time to post photos of your cotter pins?
branko_76 is offline  
Likes For branko_76:
Old 03-01-24, 09:59 AM
  #11  
Standard Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,266

Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1296 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 490 Posts
Originally Posted by branko_76
you mean like not taking the time to post photos of your cotter pins?
Yeah, it's just like not bothering to read in that i don't have a camera right now. Dope.
__________________
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.
1989Pre is offline  
Old 03-01-24, 10:28 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,517

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 1,760 Times in 634 Posts
Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I sanded one pin down and they are now about equal, with 10mm of the non threaded side sticking out. They're tight, so I'll just leave it. A new camera is on the way, my old one is broken.
Old school cranks typically had a 10mm or so drive side off set and yes one did need to file the pins to get a good fit so you should be fine if stuff is basically strait and tight You can have a 5mm or so difference from perfect with no real issues.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 03-01-24, 10:35 AM
  #13  
Strong Walker
 
martl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,317

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked 482 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by iab
A picture would help.

I like exposed threads after all is said and done.

Frejus 40 by iabisdb, on Flickr
This is what my cotter pin installations look like, but the two or three 1950ies bikes i got, who were built contemporary, had almost no length of pin or thread sticking out. It saves a lot of trouser legs, too
martl is offline  
Likes For martl:
Old 03-01-24, 11:07 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,517

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 1,760 Times in 634 Posts
Originally Posted by martl
This is what my cotter pin installations look like, but the two or three 1950ies bikes i got, who were built contemporary, had almost no length of pin or thread sticking out. It saves a lot of trouser legs, too
Great job for freehand likely done without a cotter press pin setter and alignment tools.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 03-01-24, 04:40 PM
  #15  
blahblahblah chrome moly
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,986
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 2,567 Times in 1,072 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa
No smartphone? They're like $15. And no plan needed. All you need is wifi.
This thread is confusing since 1989Pre is on my Ignore list, but I see from quotes that he called @Bianchigirll a scatological insult word, and then in another post called her lazy. Then called someone else a dope. After coming here asking for advice. Why do people reply to such nastiness?

On a few bikes, after filing the cotters to get the amount of thread I like sticking out (just a bit past the nut, ideally ~1 thread), I took the pins out and cut them short on the unthreaded end, so just a few mm sticks out on that side. Less trouser-catching, and light weight!!!

But then the cut can rust, so I keep them covered in grime.
bulgie is offline  
Likes For bulgie:
Old 03-01-24, 05:53 PM
  #16  
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,620

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3877 Post(s)
Liked 6,466 Times in 3,198 Posts
Originally Posted by bulgie
Why do people reply to such nastiness?
Yeah, I might make the mistake of prioritizing my never ending campaign of folks adding a basic photo to their started threads over civility.
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 03-03-24, 09:58 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,749

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked 672 Times in 420 Posts
Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Dope.
so you expect us to guess what the problem is with no photos and a unintelligent description? no, you are the dope

Last edited by branko_76; 03-03-24 at 10:07 AM.
branko_76 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.