So do the outer spokes go forward or rearward
I have both

outside toward front

totally screwed, 3 spokes from the inside next to each other with 2 crossing


outside toward rear

outside front





Some I built, some purchased so questions

If I rebuild on an existing hub, I keep the same clockwise/anticlockwise inner/outer spoke pattern that is evident in the indentations on the hub flange.

In practice, I have yet to find that the exact pattern (symmetrical left and right flanges vs. parallel left and right flanges, torque spokes on the inside vs. outside on the drive side, likewise on the left side -- I have experienced almost every combination, as you reportedly have, as well) makes any real world difference in feel or reliability of a wheel.

There are a lot of little things you can do that show attention to detail, but as long as the spokes are laced correctly and tensioned equally, it doesn't really matter to us mere mortals.

Plus 1 if spokes are good and it's strait don't over think end of the day one or two spacers will basically fix things. Myself I don't rebuild wheels other bearings if the cones and axels are good fine if not find a different set wheels good wheels fairly cheap and easy to find.

The outside lacing on hub shift or coaster wheels is basically correct to help offset the back force of shifting or braking.

Definitely fix that SA!

I agree... But stuff lake this drives me crazy... Ha

Kinda like that little scratch in the paint no one can see but you...

I was taught pulling spokes inside (head on the outside), as they get the most stress, and if your chain drops behind the largest cog, the outer ones get chewed up. I believe that's the gospel according to Jobst as well. But then, some wheel experts differ...

What's really important is to build a wheel so that looking down through the valve hole you should see the Campagnolo logo centered up.

All of this is approved by the ASFE.

Much like what #Gugie said above. The spokes under the most tension are the pulling spokes on the rear hub. Since most spoke failures occur at the bend, a pulling spoke should be on the inside of the flange with the head facing out. This gives the spoke a slightly straighter pull angle at the bend when the wheel is under torque. If it were laced to the outside it would then also have to bend around the outside of the flange at a greater angle which could increase any weakness. Having said that, spokes these days are of such excellent quality that it really does matter that much. Breaking a spoke on a properly built wheel under normal riding conditions is quite rare without some outside influence. Just my opinion though and worth what you paid for it.

Gospel according to Sheldon Brown and our shop mechanic at Life Cycle Cambridge, MA, 1977. (Sheldon used to come over to hang with the mechanic late afternoons. Discussed - 3-speeds, fix gears - including 3-speed fix gears - and spoke lacing.) Their argument for inside pulling is that the outside "static" spokes would tend to minimized chain suck into the hub flange/inside cog crevasse and minimize damage to spokes, chain, derailleur, etc. That's been my experience.

I used to think stuff like this might matter, but after several dozen wheels for my own use, I am starting to think that many of the "finer points" of wheelbuilding are inconsequential, and that the reason they have been discussed is because someone's ego decided to rationalize their personal preferences and attempt to showcase their knowledge of trivial things that don't really matter. Yes. There are absolutely some good practices advocated, and I'm not claiming these people are incorrect - but I haven't found the leading/trailing or inside/outside makes a difference.

Granted, I usually build 36 hole wheels, have only built 3-cross, and always start wheels relative to the valve hole and with spokes with heads facing out (because it's an absolute P.I.T.A. to lace 3x if you start with the courses of spokes that have the heads facing inward). I suppose this means I am consistently building wheels with the same pattern, but I can't be bothered to contemplate how my practical approach to lacing compares to what the "experts" advise about such a traditional and proven effective pattern.

An aside more than anything else here, but I recently picked up a '78 Raleigh Comp GS and both front and rear wheel were laced with the 'pulling' spokes on the inside on one side of the wheel and on the outside on the other...! Seems like it would be kind of a PITA to lace up a wheel this way, and.... why?

Gotta say, after assembling traditional 2x or 3x wheelsets, I was a bit flummoxed with my first radial spoke build. Took me a minute to figure out there's nothing to figure out. 😜

Machine-built wheels can be identified by their lacing pattern (if it is not radial), as the spokes are laced the same on each side, rather than mirrored as on hand-built wheels.

There is a mistake in the lacing on the Sturmey Archer hub brake, 2 heads down side by side.

Good catch one spoke is the wrong way.

Yup, that one is next on my list to unscrew!

That is how I always build a wheel on a brand-new hub, where I don't have to worry about previous deformation of spoke holes or flanges.

Once you put the torque spokes on the inner flange of the drive side, putting them on the outside of the left flange makes wheel dishing asymmetry that much more severe. Other than the chain suck argument, one could choose outside the drive side flange and inside the left side flange for torque spokes.

Mavic, back in the early/mid 90's, did a test with their neutral support wheels. They tested every combination. Result was outside spoke pulling and blue loctite held up the best.