Trying to identify ?90s? Alan frameset
10-04-24 | 02:37 PM
#1
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Trying to identify ?90s? Alan frameset
I searched around and could only find threads for 70-80s Alan identification.
Of note:
* Rear drops are 130mm
* Takes 27.2mm seat post
* Rear brake cable is internally routed through the top tube
* Fork has an aluminum crown with carbon legs
* Serial number does not begin with a letter indicating year of manufacturer.
* Dont see a stamping/demarcation of manufacturer date in/on seat tube
* Bottom bracket is Italian threaded
Of note:
* Rear drops are 130mm
* Takes 27.2mm seat post
* Rear brake cable is internally routed through the top tube
* Fork has an aluminum crown with carbon legs
* Serial number does not begin with a letter indicating year of manufacturer.
* Dont see a stamping/demarcation of manufacturer date in/on seat tube
* Bottom bracket is Italian threaded
10-04-24 | 05:24 PM
#2
not sure about that fork being OEM ALAN, but the DOs and seat lug point to a Colnago (Carbitubo) rebranded ALAN frame around 1988 to 1990, but...are any of the frame tubes/stays carbon fiber, or only the fork blades?
here's a link to a "how to date and ID Guide" which @SoCaled reminded me about just a day or two ago:
https://www.dcisite.be/en/artikel-info/alan-guide
on 2nd thought might be some flavor of 1990 R-30, but that could have ALU, or CF or Titanium main tubes but it's one (or 3) models that seems to have internal cable routing in the top tube
here's a link to a "how to date and ID Guide" which @SoCaled reminded me about just a day or two ago:
https://www.dcisite.be/en/artikel-info/alan-guide
on 2nd thought might be some flavor of 1990 R-30, but that could have ALU, or CF or Titanium main tubes but it's one (or 3) models that seems to have internal cable routing in the top tube
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-04-24 at 05:37 PM.
10-04-24 | 07:56 PM
#3
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not sure about that fork being OEM ALAN, but the DOs and seat lug point to a Colnago (Carbitubo) rebranded ALAN frame around 1988 to 1990, but...are any of the frame tubes/stays carbon fiber, or only the fork blades?
here's a link to a "how to date and ID Guide" which @SoCaled reminded me about just a day or two ago:
https://www.dcisite.be/en/artikel-info/alan-guide
on 2nd thought might be some flavor of 1990 R-30, but that could have ALU, or CF or Titanium main tubes but it's one (or 3) models that seems to have internal cable routing in the top tube
here's a link to a "how to date and ID Guide" which @SoCaled reminded me about just a day or two ago:
https://www.dcisite.be/en/artikel-info/alan-guide
on 2nd thought might be some flavor of 1990 R-30, but that could have ALU, or CF or Titanium main tubes but it's one (or 3) models that seems to have internal cable routing in the top tube
10-04-24 | 09:23 PM
#4
On 3rd and maybe 4th thoughts: I went thru our entire thread of "re-branded ALAN" marques cause the "APS" on the fork decal rang a very faint bell. but could not find the reference that might clarify.
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-04-24 at 09:29 PM.
10-04-24 | 09:46 PM
#5
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On 3rd and maybe 4th thoughts: I went thru our entire thread of "re-branded ALAN" marques cause the "APS" on the fork decal rang a very faint bell. but could not find the reference that might clarify.
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
Will pick through that thread to see what I can glean.
10-04-24 | 10:36 PM
#6
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On 3rd and maybe 4th thoughts: I went thru our entire thread of "re-branded ALAN" marques cause the "APS" on the fork decal rang a very faint bell. but could not find the reference that might clarify.
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
1) the Fanini on post 78 has the top tube routing entry and exit similar to my bike.
2) on post 74 the flyer indicates that the seat posts were still 25mm in 1992.
So 1993 or later?
10-05-24 | 03:56 AM
#8
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
On 3rd and maybe 4th thoughts: I went thru our entire thread of "re-branded ALAN" marques cause the "APS" on the fork decal rang a very faint bell. but could not find the reference that might clarify.
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
I THINK there was some contract-deal in the '90s (maybe later) that ALAN produced frames for, it's POSSIBLE this is a fork from that arrangement. Hope somebody who remembers thing will chime in.
But I also looked for any frame that had top tube cable routing, those DOs where the seat stays are bolted on, and that seat lug.
There are a couple, see post 23 (it's an all CF Olmo) but also see post 37 (Salmagundi with CF rear)
Re-branded ALAN frames: a list
Could still be a variation on the R-30 but maybe later than '90
It's an interesting frame and one I would love to have come across. I wonder if the tubes have been painted and, if so, how easy would it be to remove the paint?
27.2 diameter seat post is interesting. I really don't know what diameter seatpost the ALAN Carbonio's used? Interesting? (As opposed to the Alluminium ALAN frames that used a Dia. 25mm seatpost.
Nice frame.
Last edited by Gary Fountain; 10-05-24 at 04:01 AM.
10-05-24 | 09:47 AM
#10
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I agree with unworthy1, it looks quite similar to post #23 in the link provided. I would hazard a guess that the original owner changed the front fork to have a more carbon look for this frame. I would guess that this frame is circa 1985/6 with one set of bottle mounts and what I think is an early version of internal rear brake cable routing in the top tube. I think the 'bolt on' rear seat stays place it as an earlier example on an ALAN Carbonio and I wonder if it was made on contract for another bike manufacturer? I also think the ALAN decals on the front fork are an added enhancement and I wonder of the ALAN head tube badge is also an added enhancement?
It's an interesting frame and one I would love to have come across. I wonder if the tubes have been painted and, if so, how easy would it be to remove the paint?
27.2 diameter seat post is interesting. I really don't know what diameter seatpost the ALAN Carbonio's used? Interesting? (As opposed to the Alluminium ALAN frames that used a Dia. 25mm seatpost.
Nice frame.
It's an interesting frame and one I would love to have come across. I wonder if the tubes have been painted and, if so, how easy would it be to remove the paint?
27.2 diameter seat post is interesting. I really don't know what diameter seatpost the ALAN Carbonio's used? Interesting? (As opposed to the Alluminium ALAN frames that used a Dia. 25mm seatpost.
Nice frame.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...0/IMG_0173.JPG
Although the kinesis dropouts were usually labeled as kinesis. This one has no demarcation at all. Of note this fork has lawyer tabs.
10-05-24 | 09:50 AM
#11
The Fanini (#78) does have the correct seat lug and apparently the cable routing matches but the tiny NDS pic looks like it's both ALL Alu (no CF there) plus cannot confirm if the DOs are "bolt-on seat stays" type
I think the Salmagundi (#23, marketed by Performance bike shops?) has the most matching features to date since it does have the DOs, and the CF rear triangle, plus an aftermarket CF fork, but this one is labelled "LOOK". At least it's also threaded 1", apparently.
Since it was sold by a pretty large chain there may be catalog or advert scans online with more details. I shopped at local Performance shops for years but never noticed one of those "Salmagundis"
10-05-24 | 09:56 AM
#12
Poking around the fork looks like it was made by kinesis:
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...0/IMG_0173.JPG
Although the kinesis dropouts were usually labeled as kinesis. This one has no demarcation at all. Of note this fork has lawyer tabs.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...0/IMG_0173.JPG
Although the kinesis dropouts were usually labeled as kinesis. This one has no demarcation at all. Of note this fork has lawyer tabs.
Last detail: unable to tell from one pic but is that Kinesis steerer 1" or 1.125" ?
BUT, on 2nd (or 5th) thought Kinesis did make CF forks with threaded 1" steerer (or so say the eBay ads) and some straight-blades, too, crowns have some variations. So it's possible that at least the fork could be one so therefore not made by ALAN
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-05-24 at 10:08 AM.
10-05-24 | 10:10 AM
#13
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BUT: that Kinesis has curved blages and your "APS ALAN" straight blades, plus the joint between blade and crown (on K) is a straight line where the ALAN is angled (or is that an illusion? looks like it's angles downward from out-to-inboard)
Last detail: unable to tell from one pic but is that Kinesis steerer 1" or 1.125" ?
Last detail: unable to tell from one pic but is that Kinesis steerer 1" or 1.125" ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12624448262...mis&media=COPY
Did Alan rebadge kinesis forks? Or more likely a previous owner? Would be surprised if they ground off the kinesis engraving on the dropouts but leave the lawyer tabs.
10-05-24 | 10:13 AM
#14
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I agree with unworthy1, it looks quite similar to post #23 in the link provided. I would hazard a guess that the original owner changed the front fork to have a more carbon look for this frame. I would guess that this frame is circa 1985/6 with one set of bottle mounts and what I think is an early version of internal rear brake cable routing in the top tube. I think the 'bolt on' rear seat stays place it as an earlier example on an ALAN Carbonio and I wonder if it was made on contract for another bike manufacturer? I also think the ALAN decals on the front fork are an added enhancement and I wonder of the ALAN head tube badge is also an added enhancement?
It's an interesting frame and one I would love to have come across. I wonder if the tubes have been painted and, if so, how easy would it be to remove the paint?
27.2 diameter seat post is interesting. I really don't know what diameter seatpost the ALAN Carbonio's used? Interesting? (As opposed to the Alluminium ALAN frames that used a Dia. 25mm seatpost.
Nice frame.
It's an interesting frame and one I would love to have come across. I wonder if the tubes have been painted and, if so, how easy would it be to remove the paint?
27.2 diameter seat post is interesting. I really don't know what diameter seatpost the ALAN Carbonio's used? Interesting? (As opposed to the Alluminium ALAN frames that used a Dia. 25mm seatpost.
Nice frame.
The frame number: 141029 is very close to my 142093. Seems to validate the 85/86 date of construction.
Although that seems awful early for 130mm rear drops.
Last edited by Skhatri; 10-05-24 at 10:35 AM.
10-05-24 | 12:40 PM
#15
I will make this my last post on the subject, cause I'm sure C&Vers are getting very bored with my speculations, maybe the best authority would be "Andre B." the guy who produced that Guide for ID of ALAN details as well as the many Maps of Bicycle Marques...his guide may not be 100% conclusive or correct, but it's a damn sight more than I know!
So, back to this final round of nit-picking and guessing:
Differences from yours and this Speedbicycles example: obviously Swiss job is ALL CF (Carbonio), it does not have the "bolt-on seat stays" DO; yes it has internal cable routing but in this CF top tube the inlet an outlet are what we sometimes call "Frenched", yours has a stub of the guide-tube (at least the outlet); then based on the sketches of seat lugs from this Guide: check out the ways the seat stay tops merge with the lug, and the edge of the seat-tube socket, and the length of the top tube socket. It's interpretation but I think the best seat cluster to match yours in the one the Guide IDs as "Titanal" even tho there may be no titanium in your frame (?) the seat lug on Swiss Carbonio looks more like the R-30 Carbonio and the other R-30 (see the curve in the bottom edge?)
And final speculation: not sure how reliably sequential are ALAN serial numbers: that's one for the real experts
nicknamed "Swiss"
So, back to this final round of nit-picking and guessing:
Differences from yours and this Speedbicycles example: obviously Swiss job is ALL CF (Carbonio), it does not have the "bolt-on seat stays" DO; yes it has internal cable routing but in this CF top tube the inlet an outlet are what we sometimes call "Frenched", yours has a stub of the guide-tube (at least the outlet); then based on the sketches of seat lugs from this Guide: check out the ways the seat stay tops merge with the lug, and the edge of the seat-tube socket, and the length of the top tube socket. It's interpretation but I think the best seat cluster to match yours in the one the Guide IDs as "Titanal" even tho there may be no titanium in your frame (?) the seat lug on Swiss Carbonio looks more like the R-30 Carbonio and the other R-30 (see the curve in the bottom edge?)
And final speculation: not sure how reliably sequential are ALAN serial numbers: that's one for the real experts
nicknamed "Swiss"
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-05-24 at 12:47 PM.
10-05-24 | 01:59 PM
#16
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I will make this my last post on the subject, cause I'm sure C&Vers are getting very bored with my speculations, maybe the best authority would be "Andre B." the guy who produced that Guide for ID of ALAN details as well as the many Maps of Bicycle Marques...his guide may not be 100% conclusive or correct, but it's a damn sight more than I know!
So, back to this final round of nit-picking and guessing:
Differences from yours and this Speedbicycles example: obviously Swiss job is ALL CF (Carbonio), it does not have the "bolt-on seat stays" DO; yes it has internal cable routing but in this CF top tube the inlet an outlet are what we sometimes call "Frenched", yours has a stub of the guide-tube (at least the outlet); then based on the sketches of seat lugs from this Guide: check out the ways the seat stay tops merge with the lug, and the edge of the seat-tube socket, and the length of the top tube socket. It's interpretation but I think the best seat cluster to match yours in the one the Guide IDs as "Titanal" even tho there may be no titanium in your frame (?) the seat lug on Swiss Carbonio looks more like the R-30 Carbonio and the other R-30 (see the curve in the bottom edge?)
And final speculation: not sure how reliably sequential are ALAN serial numbers: that's one for the real experts
nicknamed "Swiss"
So, back to this final round of nit-picking and guessing:
Differences from yours and this Speedbicycles example: obviously Swiss job is ALL CF (Carbonio), it does not have the "bolt-on seat stays" DO; yes it has internal cable routing but in this CF top tube the inlet an outlet are what we sometimes call "Frenched", yours has a stub of the guide-tube (at least the outlet); then based on the sketches of seat lugs from this Guide: check out the ways the seat stay tops merge with the lug, and the edge of the seat-tube socket, and the length of the top tube socket. It's interpretation but I think the best seat cluster to match yours in the one the Guide IDs as "Titanal" even tho there may be no titanium in your frame (?) the seat lug on Swiss Carbonio looks more like the R-30 Carbonio and the other R-30 (see the curve in the bottom edge?)
And final speculation: not sure how reliably sequential are ALAN serial numbers: that's one for the real experts
nicknamed "Swiss"
1) orientation of the serial number on the bottom bracket
2) shape of the seat lug
3) googling for Alan Titanal/titanio (Italian name for Titanal?) I found 2 pictures of frames where the rear dropout is screwed. Eg: https://www.ebay.com/itm/335377089821?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=uYSL6__LSAW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=O4pPnJkLTW2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Note: Titanal is an alloy of aluminum not titanium.
Most likely answer is the fork was an aftermarket upgrade by a prior owner.
thank you so much....
Last edited by Skhatri; 10-05-24 at 02:05 PM.
11-11-25 | 03:27 PM
#17
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Bikes: Especialy Alan, but also Empella, Cascarsi, Gazelle, Bianchi, CJV, Sirocco, Berkers etcetera
