Name that frame
10-30-24 | 03:11 PM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 521
Likes: 497
From: Netherlands, near the sea
Bikes: '87 Koga-Miyata Gents Racer, '91 Pinarello Asolo 'spumoni', '97 Giant Team Atlanta, '99 B1 Weblite Cross , '16 Cube Peloton Race.
My two cents: French, of a smaller manufacturer.
10-30-24 | 03:20 PM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,369
Likes: 4,391
From: Alta California
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the dimensions posted by capnjonny in this message would seem to rule out a french origin for the frame
21
he gives a saddle pillar size of 27.0mm and a seat tube diameter of "29.0mm" - so presumably 28.6mm
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the dimensions posted by capnjonny in this message would seem to rule out a french origin for the frame
21
he gives a saddle pillar size of 27.0mm and a seat tube diameter of "29.0mm" - so presumably 28.6mm
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10-30-24 | 04:57 PM
#28
feros ferio
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 22,397
Likes: 1,864
From: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
68mm or 70mm (Italian) BB shell width?
35mm (French or Swiss), 1.375", or 36mm (Italian) BB cup diameter?
35mm (French or Swiss), 1.375", or 36mm (Italian) BB cup diameter?
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
10-31-24 | 01:01 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 1,162
From: Saratoga calif.
Bikes: 2 ezip electric bikes, trek 800 antelope, nishiki international, 1948 schwin new world, phillippe french boutique bike
Still not ready to commit to A Mfg. or year on the second mystery (Iitalian?) frame. I was given contact info for the original owner who lives in Santa Cruz Ca but have not been able to pick his brains yet for details.
PX10
In the mean time I have removed all the original paint and mounted all the appropriate French hardware I have on the px 10. Surprisingly I have a good front wheel (nisi rim with dimples, Normandy hub) a rear wheel of a different origin with another Normandy hub.
other bits:
Hurret rear der, ( i have 2 nice plastic simplex's but they both have hangers attached
Simplex pushrod front
Stronglight cranks on Sronglight spindle
Mafac 'Racer' brakes and pads,
Mafac levers w/ half hoods
Simplex seat post ( lable came off )
Brooks pro saddle ( Have an Ideale in the shop which will prob go on.)
Know who sells the appropriate decals?
By the way, the p/o had a step cut in the original simplex dropout. so he could use the Campi der? I could use any number of suntour or shimano units but I like the Hurret. Hope I have it installed right.
by the by the way, The rear wheel shown is a place holder until I can get someone to lace the Normandy rear hub i have to another rim. The freewheel shown is way to big for the hurret derailleur I have, which will take a 28 tooth rear cog.
Last edited by capnjonny; 10-31-24 at 01:14 PM.
10-31-24 | 10:10 PM
#31
that Italian could be any of a dozen marques, but the details I note are 27.0 seat post? On a 54 frame. I wonder who'd have used SP on a frame that size...and the headlugs look "milled" top and bottom. otherwise the piercings are not a good clue: generic to these lugs.
the staycaps might be a better clue, but also not that unique, just not so common...
very strange that with so few braze-ons this has 2 pairs of WB bosses, those have to have been later additions
Based on nothing but the shape of the (missing) headtube decal I'll guess"Legnano" no I retract that guess. it's not the "Bozzi" shape I was thinking of. There were some Olmos that had milling mods done to headlugs, but this doesn't match those examples either. I have no better guesses!
the staycaps might be a better clue, but also not that unique, just not so common...
very strange that with so few braze-ons this has 2 pairs of WB bosses, those have to have been later additions
Based on nothing but the shape of the (missing) headtube decal I'll guess
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-31-24 at 10:31 PM.
11-01-24 | 02:47 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,369
Likes: 4,391
From: Alta California
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transfers for the leone rampante -
https://bicycledecals.net/collection...igin=serp_auto
quality
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transfers for the leone rampante -
https://bicycledecals.net/collection...igin=serp_auto
quality
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11-04-24 | 03:33 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 1,162
From: Saratoga calif.
Bikes: 2 ezip electric bikes, trek 800 antelope, nishiki international, 1948 schwin new world, phillippe french boutique bike
I’m still waiting for the p/o to contact me about i.d.ing the mystery frame. In the mean time I am painting the PX 10 and starting up again on an old Raleigh Super Course that had been waiting on repairs to the drop outs.
After weighing the Raleigh fork I thought it would be instructive to compare it to some others I have at my shop. The picture shows from top to bottom The Raleigh, a couple modern steel forks, the mystery bike fork, and at the bottom a carbon fork.The Peugeot fork is still wet but I did manage to weigh it.
As can be seen in the photos, the super course was heaviest at 1.83lbs.
followed by the pantograph fork at 171,the px 10(not shown)at 1.60, the straight blade at 153 , the mystery fork at 1.43 and the carbon at 1.10 lbs.
The mystery fork is pretty light. The bare frame is 4.0 lbs. With all the other cues I am pretty confident saying this is a high end Italian frame / fork from the 1970’s
After weighing the Raleigh fork I thought it would be instructive to compare it to some others I have at my shop. The picture shows from top to bottom The Raleigh, a couple modern steel forks, the mystery bike fork, and at the bottom a carbon fork.The Peugeot fork is still wet but I did manage to weigh it.
As can be seen in the photos, the super course was heaviest at 1.83lbs.
followed by the pantograph fork at 171,the px 10(not shown)at 1.60, the straight blade at 153 , the mystery fork at 1.43 and the carbon at 1.10 lbs.
The mystery fork is pretty light. The bare frame is 4.0 lbs. With all the other cues I am pretty confident saying this is a high end Italian frame / fork from the 1970’s
11-05-24 | 11:55 AM
#34
Edumacator
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 9,608
Likes: 5,104
From: Goose Creek, SC
Bikes: More than the people who ride them...oy.
My completely random guesses for the mystery Italian frame?
Gaia or Bonvicini! How's that? Haha.
Gaia or Bonvicini! How's that? Haha.
__________________
1987 Crest C'dale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin EL, 1990 Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Isoard, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 C'dale M500, 1984 Mercian Pro, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi ?, 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh Internat'l, 1998 Corratec U+D, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone, 1987 Bianchi Volpe, 1995 Trek 750
1987 Crest C'dale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin EL, 1990 Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Isoard, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 C'dale M500, 1984 Mercian Pro, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi ?, 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh Internat'l, 1998 Corratec U+D, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone, 1987 Bianchi Volpe, 1995 Trek 750
11-05-24 | 01:01 PM
#35
the fork with 1.71 weight is a Casati...do I get any points for that? 
I still have nothing for the mystery red frameset but surprised its fork is so much lighter than a Casati fork, must be the differing weight of the crowns cause i doubt there'd be any different blades used.
When will the beans be spilled?
I still have nothing for the mystery red frameset but surprised its fork is so much lighter than a Casati fork, must be the differing weight of the crowns cause i doubt there'd be any different blades used.
When will the beans be spilled?
11-05-24 | 01:59 PM
#37
Edumacator
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 9,608
Likes: 5,104
From: Goose Creek, SC
Bikes: More than the people who ride them...oy.
the fork with 1.71 weight is a Casati...do I get any points for that?
I still have nothing for the mystery red frameset but surprised its fork is so much lighter than a Casati fork, must be the differing weight of the crowns cause i doubt there'd be any different blades used.
When will the beans be spilled?
I still have nothing for the mystery red frameset but surprised its fork is so much lighter than a Casati fork, must be the differing weight of the crowns cause i doubt there'd be any different blades used.
When will the beans be spilled?
__________________
1987 Crest C'dale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin EL, 1990 Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Isoard, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 C'dale M500, 1984 Mercian Pro, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi ?, 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh Internat'l, 1998 Corratec U+D, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone, 1987 Bianchi Volpe, 1995 Trek 750
1987 Crest C'dale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin EL, 1990 Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Isoard, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 C'dale M500, 1984 Mercian Pro, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi ?, 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh Internat'l, 1998 Corratec U+D, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone, 1987 Bianchi Volpe, 1995 Trek 750
11-07-24 | 01:01 PM
#40
11-07-24 | 08:32 PM
#42
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 1,162
From: Saratoga calif.
Bikes: 2 ezip electric bikes, trek 800 antelope, nishiki international, 1948 schwin new world, phillippe french boutique bike
I am going to reveal what this bike is "purported" to be by the previous owner.
I have tried twice to get in touch with the original purchaser, Billy Menchine, who apparently has a business in Santa Cruz Ca. If anyone here knows him or of him please tell him I REALLY want to talk to him about the bike.
Here is what the donater told me :
The 'bike' I donated is a late 1970s Guerciotti. Italian, company started by a pair of brothers trained in the Chinelli workshop. I do not know the model. It was repainted red at some point. A small very tight racing frame. With extremely beautiful simple lugwork tapered into the frame tubes. Simple but the nicest I have ever seen. This is an old bike, modern times have moved on. https://www.guerciotti.it/en/
My problem is that the bike I have does not have any of the unique features found on most Guerciotti frames. like the pantographing on the seat stays , the star shaped cutout on the lugs or the star cutout on the bottom brackets.
There is no serial number anywhere I can find it , only the number 54 stamped in the bb.
I have been scouring the internet looking at any 1970's guerciotti I can find and at least one did not have the star shapped cutouts or pantographing on the seat stays . that one had 2 cutouts on the bottom bracket vs my one.
knowing this is anyone knowledgeable enough with this mfg. to say I have a guerciotti? Obviously I want it to be so but I don't want to decal it as one if I'm not sure.
Here are some pictures of two I found w/o the stars and pantographing.
https://buycycle.com/en-us/short/def...4fb98272-81250
and another
https://www.ebay.com/itm/267045972560
I have tried twice to get in touch with the original purchaser, Billy Menchine, who apparently has a business in Santa Cruz Ca. If anyone here knows him or of him please tell him I REALLY want to talk to him about the bike.
Here is what the donater told me :
The 'bike' I donated is a late 1970s Guerciotti. Italian, company started by a pair of brothers trained in the Chinelli workshop. I do not know the model. It was repainted red at some point. A small very tight racing frame. With extremely beautiful simple lugwork tapered into the frame tubes. Simple but the nicest I have ever seen. This is an old bike, modern times have moved on. https://www.guerciotti.it/en/
My problem is that the bike I have does not have any of the unique features found on most Guerciotti frames. like the pantographing on the seat stays , the star shaped cutout on the lugs or the star cutout on the bottom brackets.
There is no serial number anywhere I can find it , only the number 54 stamped in the bb.
I have been scouring the internet looking at any 1970's guerciotti I can find and at least one did not have the star shapped cutouts or pantographing on the seat stays . that one had 2 cutouts on the bottom bracket vs my one.
knowing this is anyone knowledgeable enough with this mfg. to say I have a guerciotti? Obviously I want it to be so but I don't want to decal it as one if I'm not sure.
Here are some pictures of two I found w/o the stars and pantographing.
https://buycycle.com/en-us/short/def...4fb98272-81250
and another
https://www.ebay.com/itm/267045972560
11-07-24 | 10:43 PM
#43
Huh! Did not expect that would be the marque! Possibly but not that familiar with who was building Guercs in the early days to confirm or dispute.
I will dispute that the example linked that purports to be a "1969" build...nope, don't think so!
The Losa (yes, it clearly is) example is most likely "early '70s" as the seller claimed.
would love to hear from somebody who owns a legit "late 1970s" frame to chime in with a comparison
I will dispute that the example linked that purports to be a "1969" build...nope, don't think so!
The Losa (yes, it clearly is) example is most likely "early '70s" as the seller claimed.
would love to hear from somebody who owns a legit "late 1970s" frame to chime in with a comparison
