I just bought this bike locally. It measures 62cm seat tube by 57cm top tube. The head badge says William Brunner. No other decals or serial number. Interesting fork crown, Ive never seen one quite like it. Seat stays are interesting too. Some things don't make sense. Wheelset is 5 speed and rear spacing appears to be thus 120mm. But there is a front derailleur braze on and top tube cable guides. Not sure what the lugset is. Seatpost diameter is 27.2, it has a reynolds 531 sticker on seat tube, and bottom bracket is english threaded. What else can you see in these photos? Any ideas what this is? My theory is respray 70s bike with custom head badge and a few braze ons before respray.

And it has nutted brakes. Frame has 70s and 80s elements.

Neat bike. I’m trying to picture the rider reaching for a bottle.

lmao! So true!

Lugs, BB shell, and fork crown are Henry James. The seemingly anachronistic 120 rear spacing might have had something to do with a big person who always bent or broke 6-7 spd. rear axles on freewheel hubs ?

Looks like a nicely made frame, maybe a one-off from a machinist or someone familiar with metalworking ?

To my eye, the chainstays look pretty ridiculously short for that size bike. Wheelie time on seated climbing !

Not as challenging as you might think. Long legs are usually accompanied by long arms.

My Eisentraut "Rainbow" with a 63cm frame had 16" chainstays and a 38.5" wheelbase. It was the most solid-handling and best balanced bike I've ridden in 50 years at this game. 50mph downhill? No sweat. Curse that pickup truck driver and his "improper right turn"!

CONGRATUALTIONS!!! Welcome to the "It looks like a really nicely made frame, but I have no idea" club At least you have head badge to start with

Popular consensus for Betty is maybe a frame built during a class in the early '80s with an "off the shelf" or later replacement fork


Ugly Betty getting new custome graphics in April 2023

unsatisfying answer but one I can live with. By the way, your ugly Betty is rad!

Does anybody know any custom builders in US that used that seat stay arrangement with Henry James lug and the lugged, pointed fastback? It seems unique to me.

>> The head badge says William Brunner.
It actually says "Brünner" -- but William is not a German spelling anywhere I"m familiar with.

Brünner is a name that could be from Germany, Austria, the Alpine part of Italy -- think Francesco Moser, great name -- and points east, but none of those fit with William -- Wilhelm would be the usuall spelling.
I'd say most likely American, where we mix & match freely.

Nutted brakes + chromed lugs & fork is an odd combination. Add the super short chain stays, I'd say made in the mid-80s as a one-off with parts on hand?

The fork crown looks like Henry James. Brunner is likely the builder, although I've not heard of them before.

There's a William (Bill) Brunner from back east who's a cycling coach but raced in Pasadena for a time in the 1970s and has degrees in mechanical engineering. He's on the United States Bicycling Hall of Fame board of directors:

About Bill Brunner - Bill Elliston Event Announcing & Coaching

It doesn't appear that he's very tall, but perhaps he dabbled in frame building? Might be worth reaching out.

-Gregory

very interested. Thank you! I reached out to Bill via email and Facebook and I will report back if he shares anything relevant to this bike frame. Any other ideas out there?
aAs an update, I measured rear spacing today and it is actually 126mm. looking again, I find The chainstay bridge kind of interesting too if folks want to take a look at that.

I did notice the chain stay bridge and wondered what other use it might have had? A kickstand? I wouldn't be surprised that this is a repaint. Back in the late 70's and early 80's, I repainted a lot of frames including an alignment and adding or subtracting braze-ons. Adding decals under an Imron clear is a lot more work and expense so having it sprayed a single color and adding some kind of waterslide decal on top from an art store was something that was done back then to dress up a frame. Builders would have to make a lot of frames to order afford a multi-color decal like the one on this frame.

I don't think the front derailleur braze on is original to the frame. My time indicators is that the frame was made before that braze on was available. The seat stay attachment is way too challenging for any kind of amateur builder. And to get that attachment chromed as well as the lugs is pretty usual. Most of the earlier American builders were not sophisticated enough to match what was done on this bike. I might add this frame appears to be well done so my guess it was professionally made or built by someone (as already suggested) by some tool maker or machinist with some serious skills. This would not be a student made frame unless the teacher did the majority of the work.

Henry James lugs were not generally sold outside of the US (especially back then) so it is very likely to be an American made frame. Hank Folsom (who had those lugs investment cast) is past the age where we can talk to him anymore. I knew a lot of my colleagues from this era and it doesn't ring any bells. However I am Midwest based and not familiar with everyone on the west coast.

If it help the community to help figure this frame out, I disassembled the bike and took better photos of the frameset. It cleaned up nicely (just soap and water).

Probably built around 1980. It had a campagnolo super record groupset, hub nut was stamped 81 and derailleur 82. Maybe a respray of an older frame, but my spidey sense says it's probably early 80s. Inconsistent frame features include front derailleur braze on mount and nutted (non recessed) brakes.
Craftsmanship is very good. Probably custom made with custom geometry, henry james lugs. British threaded BB shell and fork. 126mm rear spacing. Probably American built by unknown builder that had major talent and experience.

I still don't know what to make of the head tube decal and the name. I reached out to Bill Brunner by email but havent heard back. Did I miss anything?

You see that point on the top of the DT/HT lug? The point that goes up the HT? (and the corresponding downward-pointing point on the TT lug) I'm pretty sure the first-generation HJ lugs didn't have those, they were just rounded there.

We used the original 1st-gen ones where I worked in 1980. I'm-a gonna guess '81 or '82 for when these lugs were made. Oh yeah and the crown wasn't out when the first-gen lugs first appeared, the crown followed a bit later.

If we say it's an '81, 120 rear spacing was still a thing then. Of course 125/126 6-speed spacing was also commonplace by then but hadn't fully taken over. That shop where I used HJ lugs made mostly 120-spaced frames, IIRC. Back then racers needed 120 to be certain of getting a spare wheel from neutral support. Of course that rapidly flipped and soon all neutral support wheels were 126. What year the flip happened might have varied by region; I was in Seattle. The amount of time where both wheel widths were supported was brief, a couple years max. From my unreliable memory, anyone have better info?

Anyway I agree the frame is most likely American. HJ didn't seem to sell many lugs overseas back then. The blended transitions between the stays and dropouts looks like how they were done on Paramounts. Not that this is a Paramount, just sayin', possibly influenced by them.

EDIT: I missed that the rear spacing was revised, now we know it was 126.

It is possible that the F.der. braze-on is original, in which case the frame is a bit newer, and then the external nuts on the brake bolts becomes the anachronism. Everything else would have been normal for mid-'80s or whenever that BO became available. Did I miss it, or is there no good pic of the F.der. BO? The first one I saw was the bent-sheetmetal one that Campy sold, then it was another year or two before the nice investment-cast ones were available. But I don't remember what year that was — anyone know? And which BO does this frame have?

Here is a close up of front derailleur mount and underside of BB shell. What is BO?

Guigie is refering to "braze on"

Thanks! That's the first version of the BO (braze-on).
Chuck Schmidt's Campagnolo Timeline says the BO F.der. was first shown in the 1982 catalog. Pro teams might have had it earlier but regular dudes in the US probably didn't get them until after the catalog, so '82 is probably the earliest possible date for your frame, if the BO is original. '83-'84 might be more likely.

And because of the chrome, I'm betting the BO is original.

I've been looking for a way to get altitude training without driving to the mountains. This could be the trick!

Enjoy the project--pretty frame, seems in good condition.

Ha. Good one!

Its too big for me so I am going to sell it. I might list the frame and fork on C&V sales page. If anybody comes across this and is interested, DM me. Good condition except for the ding and resultant paint chip on the top tube:

Looking more closely at the frame, I feel like the placement of these 2 drainage holes is pretty unique. Were there any American builders in the 80s that used this placement of drainage holes specifically?

If I had to guess, I’d say that the mystery braze-on on top of the chainstay bridge is some kind of mount for a dynamo generator, and the hole underneath the head lug and the hole in the back of the bottom bracket shell are the entry point and exit point for dynamo headlight wiring. Although I’m having difficulty envisioning (a) what kind of tire-drive dynamo would fit this braze-on and (b) why there would be lights on a frame without fender or rack eyelets. But then, this was custom, and this was a respray, so who knows what the buyer asked the builder to do, and when?

That's what handlebar-mounted bottle cages are for.