redscampi

Here is a real oddball I picked up at a yard sale last summer. I was walking through a local neighborhood block sale when I saw this. It was dusty and cobwebby from being in the owner's basement, but otherwise seemed to be in nice shape. I hadn't had a mountain bike for years and despite my wife's obvious chagrin I made a deal on the spot to buy the bike and ride it through the rest of the day's activities. I soon realized that the bike was too small and not well set up for me, and the ride was uncomfortable and wobbly. I researched the bike on the internet but there is surprisingly little available information. In fact, I have not seen a picture of another one like this. The company is defunct but it was built locally here in Kent, Washington. They appear to be (in)famous for a system that would allow you to pedal backwards to facilitate hill climbing. This bike is not equipped with that. I'm not sure what I will do with the bike since it does not fit me particularly well.

lasauge 

I like the upper linkage design, are they stiff enough to dampen the suspension?

bikemig 

Two things I love about this thread. The first is how much of a game changer mtbs were. The Europeans had been building great bikes for a long time but things were more or less in a rut in terms of technology and then the Americans came along and shook things up with mtbs. A lot of the pics on this site show these innovations some of which worked out, some of which did not, in detail. The second is that there is nothing vintage here as far as I am concerned! I thought they were cool bikes when they came out and still do. Here are pics of two of my favorite bikes: a 1991 Specialized Team Stumpjumper with a full suntour grease guard gruppo (nice stuff) (I modded the bike with a trekking bar but I think it makes the bike a better gravel grinder) and a 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper comp with a full deore xt gruppo, neat motorcycle type brake levers, and a u brake on the rear:

neo_pop_71

Smoke tires... DKG Strong-Arm brake booster (my favorite)... cool seat tube cluster and a chrome frame... Ringle cage... what'cha got there, T.?

Italuminium

thank you for looking! never heard of RondWP before, nice. The only information I found came from the UK, and the bike it came on (univega alpine 500) was originally sold there, it still has the LBS sticker on it.

Aemmer

Vintage or Classic.

I do not agree with you that there is nothing vintage in this thread, but I will certainly agree that there is a lot in this thread that isn't vintage in my eyes. Thats the joy of the phrase though, we all have our own interpretation. Dig the old Specialized.

thirdgenbird

I still maintain that velocity of technology needs to be use in the "c&v equation".

back in the friction era, a bike could be nearly two decades old but the weight, appearance, and technology was basically the same. Free wheels, drop parallelograms, simple sifters, quill stems, and mainly lugged steel. Fast forward to the 90s, and a road bike bought in 1991 and 1999 were likely completely different. Lugged vs tig, downtube vs ergo/sti, steel fork vs carbon fork, threaded vs treadless... The way things are headed (disc, 135, and electronic shifting) a road bike bought 5 years ago will have more in common with a 80s road bike than one bought in two years.

with mountain bikes, a bucket load has changed since the late 80 and early 90. We went through cantilever, u brakes,cv brakes, disc brakes, 1in threaded, 1 1/8 threaded, treadless, 130mm, 135mm, 146mm, no suspension, front suspension, full suspension, 26in, 29in, 650b, oil shock, elastomer shock, air shock...

i guess what what am saying is, most of these bikes are ancient when compared to a modern mountain bike with 29in wheels, through axles, disc brakes, and 11 rear cogs.

Edit: I didn't even mention bb standards...

cyclotoine

well said. The general cut-off over on retrobike UK is 1997. After '97 suspension and brakes started to accelerate. Discs were already on the market and the cantilever brake gave way to the linear pull on almost everything. Elastomer shocks also disappeared, rightfully so and many companies changed in a big way. The realization that stuff CNC'd out of billet was crap and everything went forged (often with some post machining but that still is different). In the last 5 years, BB standards, disc brakes are incredible compared to what they used to be, carbon in on everything, drivetrains with 42T rear cogs... so many through axle designs and suspension designs have really settled down to a few that work really well. Mountain bikes today are incredible and allow us to fly over terrain mountain bikers in 1990s would never even have dreamed of.

DMC707

I posted these pics in the "Winter Projects" thread, but it is sort of applicable in both areas , so thought I'd share --- The Marin's were getting to be relics of the NORBA generation, --- even in '95 , a full rigid fork bike in this price range was "old school" --- Marin chose to spec a better performing groupset and a paperthin Prestige tubeset rather than cave in and put on a suspender --- weight as I recall off the showroom was a hair under 23 lbs , complete with bar ends and more house brand Marin junk than you can shake a stick at , but as I said, the frame was the jewel on this one



Marin Team Issue, '95 model ---- this is the victim of a botched aand discarded early single speed project --- I have had this bike since new-- so am responsible for all the frame's bumps and bruises --- it has many, but no dents ----
Tange Ultimate Prestige tubing helps keep the weight of this project at 17 lbs 13 oz as it sits, mostly just needing bars and cables to be rideable -- guessing I could squeak it in at 20 lbs ready to ride, but the wheelset is dreadful, as are the steel seat and basic micro-adjust post -- there are quite a few places to shed more weight
Quick and dirty singlespeed conversion at the rear end with a single cog and a bunch of spacers on a stock hub with a Surly chain slack device ----
Bike is wearing a cartridge bottom bracket and the original White Industries crankset, but it squeaked, -- there was an issue with the bottom bracket shell as I recall, and that's when I abandoned the project --- need to have the threads chased and the shell re-faced
Has the cool for the time Marin house brand canti's, which were good stoppers, but given the distressed condition of this bike's paint, I may have disc tabs welded on the back ---- I am going to use a carbon threadless rigid fork with disc tabs in place (my other option which would save some cash and also be trick - would be to run the Magura 33 hydraulic brakes to go on the stock canti posts )
Undecided on the drivetrain --- The White Eno hub would clean up the back end and look sweet, but I like gears, so a 1X11 SRAM setup would also be nice if I can divert funds towards this project from other things

DMC707

I do agree that the modern machines are incredible bikes --- I have a fully suspended disc brake equipped Santa Cruz myself, -- my bike is a 4" travel cross country oriented bike , . I must admit, I don't think the bikes themselves are any faster --- I have a Yeti hardtail with a Judy front fork and linear pulls that will get around the same course as fast as a 4" suspension bike (I've tried it on separate days on the same 5 mile loop out of curiosity)

As far as opening up new terrain opportunities, I would agree if we wnted to include bigger travel bikes, but with my experiences, I can go the same places on my old hardtail I can on my suspender

So while I don't really agree that bikes today are any faster , and wont let me conquer new terrain (if we are comparing a XC hardtail to a shorter travel XC suspension bike) I do believe that the suspension and more forgiving gears , more compliant 29" wheels for some, can make the ride a bit less of a pain in the posterior, so if the ride is more comfy, we ride more
Plus -- advances in training and nutrition have helped even the everyday ordinary beginner and sport class riders go faster -- but , we are still a middle aged demographic. With some noteworthy exceptions , most of the guys and gals I see at the trails appear to be between 30-50 years of age--- if a rear shock or 29" wheeled hardtail can help us ride a bit more, then I guess in a sense, the technology will make us a little faster ultimately

DMC707

Seen at the trailhead of my local mountain bike trail system ---- I asked the gent riding it if I could shutterbug it and he graciously allowed it --- guy wasn't that old, mid 40's or so -- he said he bought it new and has had no reason to replace it to date --- couldn't argue with that logic -- anybody have a guess on its vintage? I was just thinking 95 or 96 but cant be too sure



After I got around the gentleman, I had to wait by the rhythm section for a bit to see if he was gonna huck this stuff on that beautiful old AMP--- if he did I was gonna grab a pic ! (evidently, he took a side trail and never made it here though )





I love the vintage stuff , but my current personal dirt ride is decidedly not vintage (it is getting worn out though - pivots, drivetrain, shifters getting sloppy, etc ) --- I shudder to think how much fixing it is going to cost

blilrat

Not to derail a vintage thread, but this same year Superlight was my main ride until a couple of months ago. I even converted it to 650b/27.5 and significantly changed the bike's behaviour for the better. You can still get the pivot rebuild kit from Santa Cruz. Great bike and worth putting a few dollars into it.

Aemmer

I am far from an expert on FS bikes, but this brings up a good topic. How serviceable are these FS bikes going to be in 20 years? Will they become something to collect? Will they all have sloppy bushings? SC supports this frame now but I was a bit surprised a few years ago when I tried getting new bushings and bearings from Kona for my old 01 Stinky Primo and they no longer supported it after less than a decade. So much is no longer standard anymore. Just an observation.

And that Amp is pretty cool also.

neo_pop_71

Certainly a good topic to pursue...

I held off on front suspension until White Brothers came around, standard O-rings available at any hardware store, no specialty parts involved.

I approached the same rationale with full suspension, I stayed true to my hardtails until someone came out with a frame that used readily available bushings and bearings, and in 1996 I bought my first Psycle Werks full suspension bike. I've bought a couple since that first Wild Hare but none I've bought are disc brake ready models as I've yet to see a need to go beyond v-brakes for my SoCal hard pack trails. A full replacement bushing kit from Chuck at Psycle Werks is $20.00 but I can find the same set for $12.00 online but I prefer to support Chuck. Aircraft and industrial standard size bushing that will likely not go out of production... my kind of locally made full suspension frame with an quick adjustment single bolt pivot (3.5"/4.5") rear swing arm... pure bliss!!!

blilrat

I have and have had more than few 90s era FS bikes and it is almost impossible to find rebuild kits for these frames now, but 20 years from now, I'll probably look at the bushing with my Google glasses and my desktop 3D printer will print it.

I believe they will eventually be collectible - at least the early ones. If you make the case that selling price = collectibility, look at early Foes bikes, they already hit the $1000 mark. The B5 above would bring some pretty decent pocket money also even with it's age and the fact a decent modern hardtail would outperform it on the trail.

DMC707

I bought mine in '06 --- they (Santa Cruz) updated the frame a bit in '07, but still kept the same basic single pivot suspension design --- from the standpoint of serviceability, the frame is the least of its problems --- a bushing kit is maybe $50 -- if I bought 2 sets , that would see it through the rest of its life (but the simple design of the single pivot is what made me switch over to FS in the first place)

For me, its everything else --- Most of the components are XTR , - and it seems like planned obsolescence is in force --- a 9 speed XTR cassette is difficult to find now, as are chainrings for that generation crank , --- shifters feel sloppy instead of crisp and precise -- would be nice if you could service the pivot points in the shifters, -- (maybe you can, I just haven't dug deep enough)

I cant complain too much about having a bike that has lasted me 7 years though --- but a lot of that is my current riding style and the amount of time I have to ride , which is not nearly as much as when I was in my 20's --- plus my riding time is spread amongst 3 or 4 bikes

That old shock feels like a pogo stick now -- and there have been some great shock updates in the past 7 years, -- I rode a new Yeti SB66 recently that felt like a mini motorcycle

with the cost of replacement XTR level drivetrain bits and pieces, plus a shock, then having the fork breathed on a little bit by a company like Push to bring its performance back into this decade, -- That's 12-1300 bucks ----- that's life, I know -- I just wonder how many folks just say "heck with it" and drop another 4-5k for a new one rather than trying to refurbish their old stuff -- and guys' like that keep the lights on at Specialized , Giant, Trek and Santa Cruz, etc etc

--- and bikes of this caliber can pretty regularly be found on ebay for 1000 bucks --- I just helped a buddy find a Titus Racer X with a similar parts spec to mine and the final price was $1150 ---- ready to ride and with probably less than 20 hours on it -
-- I'm at the point where I am questioning spending $1200 to bring the thing back up to a like-new performance level, since its resale value is probably less than that ----- I may mothball it eventually -- One look at my attic and new bike room (one of my winter projects) would tell most people that I rarely sell anything, - so I was hesitant about bringing a new kid into the stable,

Since this is the vintage area though, I will say, -- stuff like this makes me appreciate my old hardtails even more somedays -- but I cant argue with the smooth, confortable ride the current stuff has

LCFJ60

Lots of great bikes to look at in this thread. Here is my Trek 950 the day I bought it off Craigslist. I've since added a few things to make it my commuting bike.

cyclotoine

They are, anything with early amp rear suspension is collectable as are anything with manitou (which suck, but they still have a huge collector following). I recently picked up a 1993 ROcky Mountain edge which is a steel frame with amp rear end, made in Canada in steel for only one year. I got it for $75... a better deal than I even realized at the time, lots of rocky collectors are on the lookout for these frames.

neo_pop_71

Right On! Nice to be able to see your 950, it's just as I imagined it! I look forward to seeing what you do with your second 950... maybe a "Dingle" or a "Tringle" in your future?!!!

Cheers!

-D-

eastcoaststeve

Picked this up last night with the intent to use it as a donor for a frame I wanted to build up.....





















but now that I have it home, I think it's a bit too nice to break down...guess it's back to the drawing board, lol.



Steve

curbtender

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/4298706937.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00202_3...L1Q_50x50c.jpg

cyclotoine

Does it fit then? I am sure you know this but there is some serious coin in that machine. The skewers alone can fetch $150 in decent shape, the older mag for is pretty valuable and the XC pro parts... you done real good.

blilrat

Ringle, nuke proof?, XC Pro - wish I could find even one of those on a bike near me. Even has my favorite canti brake. That's an extremely nice parts bike.

eastcoaststeve

I normally ride a 17-18" frame, but I have a couple of 16"s that are fun to play on for jumps and stuff...I'm sure this one will be a fun ride.

Yeah, it's pretty well equipped...thought for sure someone would nab it quick when they saw the skewers, but no one else seemed to notice....you guys have better eyes than my CL competition.


Steve

eastcoaststeve

Yup, I was a bit surprised when I noticed all the bling in the CL ad...really didn't need another bike, but couldn't pass this one up. Yup on the Nuke Proof hubs, the cranks are Grafton, and I'm with you on the brakes...986 are sweet.


Steve