Centurion Serial Number Database
09-29-17 | 07:44 AM
#2201
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 568
Likes: 80
From: Bush, Louisiana
Bikes: 1984 Centurion Elite GT 15, 1985 Centurion Ironman Dave Scott, 1983 Diamond Back Ridge Runner, 1985 Mongoose ATB, 1987 Ross Centaur, 1986 Raleigh Marathon
Regarding Kuwahara, the only 1980's serial number format that I've seen for them is yy mm xxxxx. It is typically stamped on the lower seat tube and was also used on the contract manufactured frames for such private label brands as Apollo, Soma and Takara, to name but three. I've also seen it used on both ATBs and road models ,so there doesn't appear to be a unique format based on frame style. Also, as previously noted, the format used on your frame has been noted on other private label brands. It seems strange that Kuwahara would have two different serial number formats for contract manufactured frames during the same period. Consequently, I'm still leaning towards your format indicating a different, unknown manufacturer.
Yes, Miyata did have a model called the Ridge Runner. It came out in 1983, so there would have been a conflict. Your frame could still be a 1984 model if the solution was to simply drop the Ridge Runner from the 1984 line and reissue the catalog but that seems a bit drastic. I would think that they would simply have re-named it. Still, that leaves the issue of the Superbe Tech rear deralleur. Due to the front pull, the chainstay cable tunnel is dedicated and therefore it's obviously not a replacement rear derailleur. Yet, we have this derailleur appearing as "New" in SunTour catalog 61 in autumn 1983, suggesting a 1984 model. The only way for it to be a 1983 derailleur would be a if it was a late introduction and wasn't catalogued until autumn 1983. Since everything is still very gray, I'd be checking for component date dates, especially the rear derailleur. Hopefully, that will lead to a decided sway, one way or the other.
Yes, Miyata did have a model called the Ridge Runner. It came out in 1983, so there would have been a conflict. Your frame could still be a 1984 model if the solution was to simply drop the Ridge Runner from the 1984 line and reissue the catalog but that seems a bit drastic. I would think that they would simply have re-named it. Still, that leaves the issue of the Superbe Tech rear deralleur. Due to the front pull, the chainstay cable tunnel is dedicated and therefore it's obviously not a replacement rear derailleur. Yet, we have this derailleur appearing as "New" in SunTour catalog 61 in autumn 1983, suggesting a 1984 model. The only way for it to be a 1983 derailleur would be a if it was a late introduction and wasn't catalogued until autumn 1983. Since everything is still very gray, I'd be checking for component date dates, especially the rear derailleur. Hopefully, that will lead to a decided sway, one way or the other.
I agree that it probably wasn't Kuwahara who made that Ridge Runner. Just found that little article interesting. I have no idea how credible that source is though, and I've never looked much into Kuwahara's bmx serial numbers.
The conflicting derailleur release date is definitely interesting. There seems to have been a lot of unexplained and undocumented changes to the Diamond Back ATBs during the early '80s, and I'd love to try and help fill in some blanks if at all possible!
I'm going to begin disassembly soon, so I'll make a note of the component date codes as I do and report back here with my findings.
10-07-17 | 07:20 PM
#2202
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,323
Likes: 9,886
From: Utah
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Here's my serial number from the 1989 Centurion Expert I just picked up here on the forum.
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10-08-17 | 10:20 PM
#2203
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,409
Likes: 282
From: Rupert's Land
Bikes: 1981 Raleigh GP, 1985 Norco Bush Pilot, . . .
The following represents the current understanding of the various serial number formats used on Centurion models marketed by Western States Imports in the USA. Serial numbers were statistically analysed and the results compared against component date codes and extant literature.
1980-1990 Japanese models:
Most Japanese models during this period use a serial number format WXYZZZZ where;
W = a letter, purpose uncertain, but probably indicates manufacturer or Centurion
X = a number, indicating the calendar year of manufacture
Y = a letter, indicating the fortnight of manufacture (A = wk 1 & 2, B = wk 3 & 4, etc)
ZZZZ = four digit number, probably indicating frame number during fortnight
Example: N4E0283 indicates the 283 frame manufactured during the period of weeks 9-10, for the year 1984.
The letter prefix for these codes is typically 'N'. It has been suggested that this represents National, the Japanese market brand for Panasonic, which are built my Matsu****a. While the Panasonic branded models use a similar format, there is no prefix letter, nor is there a letter prefix on the Matsu****a manufactured Schwinns. This suggests the N-codes are be another manufacturer. reportedly Tano, though this is unconfirmed.
However, a number of circa 1984-1985 Centurion have turned up that match the Matsu****a format.
Miki manufactured models (circa 1975-1980)
During the late 1970s, Japan based Miki appears to have manufactured the upper end Centurion models for Western States Imports;
Serial number format Myfxxxxx, where,
M = Miki
y = number indicating year of manufacture
f = letter indicating fortnight of manufacture (i.e A = weel 1-2, B = weeks 3-4,,,,Z = weeks 51-52)
xxxxx = sequential frame number within the fortnight
Example: M7C11265 is the 11,265th frame manufactured by Miki during the 3rd fortnight of 1977.
. . .
1980-1990 Japanese models:
Most Japanese models during this period use a serial number format WXYZZZZ where;
W = a letter, purpose uncertain, but probably indicates manufacturer or Centurion
X = a number, indicating the calendar year of manufacture
Y = a letter, indicating the fortnight of manufacture (A = wk 1 & 2, B = wk 3 & 4, etc)
ZZZZ = four digit number, probably indicating frame number during fortnight
Example: N4E0283 indicates the 283 frame manufactured during the period of weeks 9-10, for the year 1984.
The letter prefix for these codes is typically 'N'. It has been suggested that this represents National, the Japanese market brand for Panasonic, which are built my Matsu****a. While the Panasonic branded models use a similar format, there is no prefix letter, nor is there a letter prefix on the Matsu****a manufactured Schwinns. This suggests the N-codes are be another manufacturer. reportedly Tano, though this is unconfirmed.
However, a number of circa 1984-1985 Centurion have turned up that match the Matsu****a format.
Miki manufactured models (circa 1975-1980)
During the late 1970s, Japan based Miki appears to have manufactured the upper end Centurion models for Western States Imports;
Serial number format Myfxxxxx, where,
M = Miki
y = number indicating year of manufacture
f = letter indicating fortnight of manufacture (i.e A = weel 1-2, B = weeks 3-4,,,,Z = weeks 51-52)
xxxxx = sequential frame number within the fortnight
Example: M7C11265 is the 11,265th frame manufactured by Miki during the 3rd fortnight of 1977.
. . .
The Centurion serial numbers with the fornmat Nytxxxx,
where N = "N" frame manufacturer designation of a Japanese frame manufacturer.
y = digit, last digit in the year
t = alpha character for the manufacture time frame within the year.
It has been often stated that "t", time frame, alpha character indicates fortnight within the year.
This "fortnight" time frame never seemed right to me, as this is for a Japanese manufacturer.
For this manufacturer, where did this fortnight idea come from? I have seen no documentation to corroborate the time frame as fortnight.
This serial number format for Centurion is found from 1978 to 1989, 12 years. I have done a year by year analysis of the third character, the time frame character, for this serial number format.
The analysis shows that of the 26 letters of the alphabet, only 15 letters have been reported in serial numbers.
If the time frame is fortnight, i think you can expect that more than 15 letters would be used.
Of these 15 letters, three letters where only reported once in the 12 year history.
If you exclude these, then there are twelve letters.
All the other 12 letters were reported at least 15 time each, over the 12 years of serial numbers.
Twelve letters for twelve months?
Here is how the letters would decode as months:
A = January
B = February
D = March
E = April
G = May
H = June
K = July
L = August
M = September
N = October
P = November
S = December
This letter/month decoding is exactly the same as TI Raleigh serial numbers from 1973 to 1989.
The three letters with one reported occurance: "C", "F", "O".
This analysis is for 275 serial numbers over the 12 years, an average of almost 2 serial numbers per month.
Over the 12 years "P" is the most common letter found, November. November seems like a good time to manufacture frames to be in place for the start of the next year bicycle season.
The analysis does not include "N" serial numbers from Centurian Australia, Diamondback mountain bikes, or any of several other brand names that had frames with serial numbers with the same format. However serial numbers that I have seen from these sources have no exceptions to the month time frame letters that I have listed above.
* * * *
A similar analysis of Miki serial numbers will reveal that the third character of the serial number for time of year of manufacture is unlikly to be fortnight.
More likely to be monthly, but using a different subset of letters for month than listed above.
A = January
B = February
C = March
D = April
E = May
F = June
G = July
H = August
J = September
K = October
L = November
M = December
10-10-17 | 10:05 PM
#2205
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,409
Likes: 282
From: Rupert's Land
Bikes: 1981 Raleigh GP, 1985 Norco Bush Pilot, . . .
Robbie, you should get some medical attention for the bleeding.
After that you can go through this thread and look at the serial numbers. No statistical skills are required. Just counting and keeping track of letters of the alphabet.
Anybody can do it. It looks like no one has done it up to this point.
This should not cause any more bleeding.
After that you can go through this thread and look at the serial numbers. No statistical skills are required. Just counting and keeping track of letters of the alphabet.
Anybody can do it. It looks like no one has done it up to this point.
This should not cause any more bleeding.
Last edited by Hummer; 10-10-17 at 10:09 PM. Reason: More comments. spelling
04-18-18 | 11:59 PM
#2209
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 271
From: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: 1974 Paramount ~ 1974 Raleigh Pro ~ 1977 Pro-Tour ~ 1978 TX900 ~ IronMan 85,87:E/M,88:M/Pro,89:E ~ 98 Peugeot Festina Replica
Heres one [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION]
Looks to be a early 70's LeMans with a SN of 8X601 and the SN is located just below the seat binder bolt.
Definitely not a 1978 model , as it has the earlier decals . any thoughts? i can post picture of frame, most components are gone except for BB and Headset.
Looks to be a early 70's LeMans with a SN of 8X601 and the SN is located just below the seat binder bolt.
Definitely not a 1978 model , as it has the earlier decals . any thoughts? i can post picture of frame, most components are gone except for BB and Headset.
04-19-18 | 07:54 AM
#2210
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,212
Likes: 3,122
Heres one [MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION]
Looks to be a early 70's LeMans with a SN of 8X601 and the SN is located just below the seat binder bolt.
Definitely not a 1978 model , as it has the earlier decals . any thoughts? i can post picture of frame, most components are gone except for BB and Headset.
Looks to be a early 70's LeMans with a SN of 8X601 and the SN is located just below the seat binder bolt.
Definitely not a 1978 model , as it has the earlier decals . any thoughts? i can post picture of frame, most components are gone except for BB and Headset.
About a handful with this format and location have surfaced. In the one case where component date codes were submitted, the first numeral in the serial number did correcpond to the year of the components. Any chance that '8' might actually be '3'?
04-19-18 | 09:48 AM
#2211
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 675
Likes: 111
From: Calgary
Bikes: Condor, Cinelli SC, MKM Metcalfe, Peugeot AE08, Bianchi, Cougar, Miyata, Harry Hall, Holdsworth Special, Raleigh Int'l, Le Croco, Bob Jackson, Zeus
1976 Centurion Semi Pro
Very low mileage and original but for saddle, bar tape, cables, tires and tubes.
Has a Bloor Cycles Toronto shop sticker on the down tube.
76 Centurion Semi Pro by BJ Stevens, on Flickr
Centurion Semi Pro '76 by BJ Stevens, on Flickr
Cheers.
Brad
Has a Bloor Cycles Toronto shop sticker on the down tube.
76 Centurion Semi Pro by BJ Stevens, on FlickrCenturion Semi Pro '76 by BJ Stevens, on FlickrCheers.
Brad
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04-19-18 | 10:59 AM
#2212
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 271
From: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: 1974 Paramount ~ 1974 Raleigh Pro ~ 1977 Pro-Tour ~ 1978 TX900 ~ IronMan 85,87:E/M,88:M/Pro,89:E ~ 98 Peugeot Festina Replica
does this makes sense?
02-04-19 | 11:48 PM
#2214
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 115
Likes: 4
can't believe i am just now doing this...
I have had quite a few centurions but most in west coast however my fleet on the east coast are the following: The turbo and ironman are for sale and all stock and pristine if anyone wants pm me. I will do a full post when I have time.
N9D5145 CENTURION Iron Man Master WHITE 1989
88J0051 CENTURION CARBON 1989 (non dave scott version)
4B0667 - on bottom of bottom bracket (88166) listed near side CENTURION TURBO BLACK 1985
will update more and add pics asap
N9D5145 CENTURION Iron Man Master WHITE 1989
88J0051 CENTURION CARBON 1989 (non dave scott version)
4B0667 - on bottom of bottom bracket (88166) listed near side CENTURION TURBO BLACK 1985
will update more and add pics asap
02-05-19 | 09:08 AM
#2215
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,212
Likes: 3,122
I have had quite a few centurions but most in west coast however my fleet on the east coast are the following: The turbo and ironman are for sale and all stock and pristine if anyone wants pm me. I will do a full post when I have time.
N9D5145 CENTURION Iron Man Master WHITE 1989
88J0051 CENTURION CARBON 1989 (non dave scott version)
4B0667 - on bottom of bottom bracket (88166) listed near side CENTURION TURBO BLACK 1985
will update more and add pics asap
N9D5145 CENTURION Iron Man Master WHITE 1989
88J0051 CENTURION CARBON 1989 (non dave scott version)
4B0667 - on bottom of bottom bracket (88166) listed near side CENTURION TURBO BLACK 1985
will update more and add pics asap
02-05-19 | 09:11 AM
#2216
Banned.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Likes: 1,463
I have had quite a few centurions but most in west coast however my fleet on the east coast are the following: The turbo and ironman are for sale and all stock and pristine if anyone wants pm me. I will do a full post when I have time.
N9D5145 CENTURION Iron Man Master WHITE 1989
88J0051 CENTURION CARBON 1989 (non dave scott version)
4B0667 - on bottom of bottom bracket (88166) listed near side CENTURION TURBO BLACK 1985
will update more and add pics asap
N9D5145 CENTURION Iron Man Master WHITE 1989
88J0051 CENTURION CARBON 1989 (non dave scott version)
4B0667 - on bottom of bottom bracket (88166) listed near side CENTURION TURBO BLACK 1985
will update more and add pics asap
02-05-19 | 12:50 PM
#2217
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 115
Likes: 4
hi robbie tunes. you have been so helpful in the past and i appreciate it.
the 1989 iron man master Dimensions:
bottom bracket to center of top tube - 21.82 inches
top tube/seat post area to headset 22.2 inches and
roughly a 55cm
thaks tmar. i figured it was as i remember the other turbo the red one being from 1983 if im not mistaken
turbo is 56 cm i have everything available to go back to stock except rear derailleur and brake levers. Currently set up with suntour winner pro freewheel and six speed indexed perfect. i have original bars and saddle and other parts it came with as my father is the original owner. The sungino crank and BB are better than any shimano cranksets in this era including 600 and durace imo. Hardly any effort needed to fly.
centurion carbon - all stock except fork. I have fork but I cannot seem to align it properly as if the drops are micro out of whack. I am not a veteran like you guys tho
Currently have it paired in mind with look carbon fork I have or Sakae prism silver matte similar alloy fork
centurion carbon 54 all stock I have including wheels as with all my bikes I store the bikes I have or dont use without wheels for space saving purposes. Currently this carbon is set with intention of shimano 600 sti shifters and 8 speed 600 tricolor derailleur
the 1989 iron man master Dimensions:
bottom bracket to center of top tube - 21.82 inches
top tube/seat post area to headset 22.2 inches and
roughly a 55cm
thaks tmar. i figured it was as i remember the other turbo the red one being from 1983 if im not mistaken
turbo is 56 cm i have everything available to go back to stock except rear derailleur and brake levers. Currently set up with suntour winner pro freewheel and six speed indexed perfect. i have original bars and saddle and other parts it came with as my father is the original owner. The sungino crank and BB are better than any shimano cranksets in this era including 600 and durace imo. Hardly any effort needed to fly.
centurion carbon - all stock except fork. I have fork but I cannot seem to align it properly as if the drops are micro out of whack. I am not a veteran like you guys tho
Currently have it paired in mind with look carbon fork I have or Sakae prism silver matte similar alloy fork
centurion carbon 54 all stock I have including wheels as with all my bikes I store the bikes I have or dont use without wheels for space saving purposes. Currently this carbon is set with intention of shimano 600 sti shifters and 8 speed 600 tricolor derailleur
Last edited by bp2k8; 02-05-19 at 07:42 PM.
02-08-19 | 06:46 AM
#2220
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,053
From: Toledo Ohio
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
1985 Ironman
I think that second letter may be an E but not positive
1985 Ironman, new to me with a few additions
Centurion Ironman purchased in the fall of 2018. I think it was stock. I did switch out the small chainring to a 39T. The seat post is a Sugino, and the brake levers Dia Compe AGC Aero.
02-08-19 | 07:44 AM
#2221
Junior Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 14
Likes: 5
From: Groton MA
Bikes: Perter Mooney Campy SR, Centurion Pro Tour 15, Redline Conquest Cross
Pro Tour 15
Centurion Pro Tour 15 - N4H 0060
1984
H - week 16 - April
0060 - 60th bike
It has been restored to original condition with all original components. I'm the original owner. Let me know if you need more details
1984
H - week 16 - April
0060 - 60th bike
It has been restored to original condition with all original components. I'm the original owner. Let me know if you need more details
02-10-19 | 12:07 AM
#2222
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 271
From: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: 1974 Paramount ~ 1974 Raleigh Pro ~ 1977 Pro-Tour ~ 1978 TX900 ~ IronMan 85,87:E/M,88:M/Pro,89:E ~ 98 Peugeot Festina Replica
Ok not totally a Centurion, but close...
was given this Diamond Back Expert tg the other day a 1990 model.
SN:89K4969
[MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION] , this doesn't seem to fit either DB or Centurion formats you have previously noted. I would guess its 89 with month k so 11-89 build? seems plausible?
was given this Diamond Back Expert tg the other day a 1990 model.
SN:89K4969
[MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION] , this doesn't seem to fit either DB or Centurion formats you have previously noted. I would guess its 89 with month k so 11-89 build? seems plausible?
02-10-19 | 07:06 AM
#2223
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,212
Likes: 3,122
Ok not totally a Centurion, but close...
was given this Diamond Back Expert tg the other day a 1990 model.
SN:89K4969
[MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION] , this doesn't seem to fit either DB or Centurion formats you have previously noted. I would guess its 89 with month k so 11-89 build? seems plausible?
was given this Diamond Back Expert tg the other day a 1990 model.
SN:89K4969
[MENTION=20650]T-Mar[/MENTION] , this doesn't seem to fit either DB or Centurion formats you have previously noted. I would guess its 89 with month k so 11-89 build? seems plausible?
02-10-19 | 01:26 PM
#2224
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 271
From: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: 1974 Paramount ~ 1974 Raleigh Pro ~ 1977 Pro-Tour ~ 1978 TX900 ~ IronMan 85,87:E/M,88:M/Pro,89:E ~ 98 Peugeot Festina Replica
Actually, that format has turned up on Centurion. I don't know the identity of the source but it's consistent with the manufacturer of the Centurion Ironman Carbons and some of the very late Centurion Prestige. However, this is the first time I've seen it on a Diamond Back. I agree with the interpretation of the format.
02-15-19 | 09:07 PM
#2225
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 5,805
Likes: 3,371
From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 82 Medici, 85 Ironman, 2011 Richard Sachs
I am very excited about picking up a Centurion Turbo in the morning and searching found this blog post:
https://recoveryourstride.blogspot.c...li-equipe.html
mostly about the Equipe but there are clickable links and picks of some neat stuff. Please forgive me if this is somewhere in the 89 pages and I missed it.
Jeff
https://recoveryourstride.blogspot.c...li-equipe.html
mostly about the Equipe but there are clickable links and picks of some neat stuff. Please forgive me if this is somewhere in the 89 pages and I missed it.
Jeff