I just found a trek 560 today in okay shape, as some of you already know from the COTD thread. I have a few questions as to what will or won't destroy the perceived "value" of this fine machine. I am thinking of going for a powder coat repaint if I can find a perfect match for the slate gray 83 color. I've heard time and time again the old adage "it's only original once". Would I be making a mistake to repaint it? I can clean and touch up the bad spots, or would this be considered the same thing? I so want to have some decals made and make it look as close as possible to showroom fresh. But, I can live with it not being perfect, too. I like the vintage look on certain bikes.

Next comes components. I have a Cyclone MII derailler set I could install for a little bling. Well actually it's a 78 Cyclone front, and an MII RD that is very close to NOS condition. The bike has what I believe is the original Suntour BL (blue line?) Would the Cyclone be an upgrade or step down? I know the Cyclone is decent rank in the lineup depending on year, and the very clean components would look very nice with a new paint job. They're not permanent, and I have the ability to hang onto components for years for originality purposes. Is one better than the other, are they equal?

Opinions, truths, suggestions? Anything is open to discussion, except selling the bike,,,,BD

Okay. Give the bike to me and you won't have to face these decisions and the agony that goes with them.

I'd try and match the paint, or clean up any rust and use clear nail polish over the steel to protect it.

While there is a strong demand for vintage Treks, they don't command the prices of the more collectible high end European frames and the like, and are more usually coveted as "riders", which, in my opinion, is just fine. That's not to say they aren't expensive, because to me a $200 bike is expensive!

You are probably safe repainting it, because in order to have a truly collectible piece, the entire bike would have to be in pristine original condition. I doubt anyone here will flame you for it. However, do you really need to repaint it? Do you plan on riding it? If you do, do you want to damage a new paint job, or is the current paint job passable and less likely to give you anxiety about riding it?

I do have one frame that I think could benefit from a repaint, but not for aesthetic reasons. It's because I think the rust has reached a point where it might compromise the frame. However, before I decide to repaint it, I'd like to ride it for a bit. So, I'm planning on giving it an oxalic acid bath (search the forums for more info on that) and hopefully stabilizing the rust. There is so much, however, that I'm unsure how I'll treat the bare metal that will remain (clear coat nail polish? A cheap clear coat from an autobody shop?)

So, how bad is the paint, really? Does it have lots of bubbling and flaking rust? Or is it merely scratched and chipped, with some superficial rust?

If you really want the respray, for your own satisfaction, I'd say go for it. I don't think the CV police will be knocking down your door. But then, I guess this thread will determine that!

EDIT: By the way, painters like Joe Bell and Spectrum Cycles will respray with Imron, meaning they can likely match your original color. But they ain't cheap!

I personally don't think preserving value is your goal as you wouldn't get exactly a fortune for the bike. A smaller version didn't sell for the seller's $175 price on eBay: https://cgi.ebay.com/TREK-560-SERIES-...QQcmdZViewItem

If it's your size, paint it your favorite color and ride the heck out of it. Heck, chop off the brazeons and make it a fixed gear. The most important thing is to ride.

Neal

That's a big +1!
The "value" that it has is best redeemed by riding it!

An old cliche...

"A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships were built for!"

And if you are going to repaint, unbraze the braze-ons, rather than "hack" sawing them off.
It's much cleaner & easier.

I have several friends who are art preservationists, they have rubbed off on me a bit. They consider restoration a four letter word, they will even argue against cleaning a piece of art. They find it acceptable only if the dirt will further damage the artwork. There are those who disagree with that stance and the cleaning of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is proof. The only other time they would consider a "restoration" would be to fix a previous bad restoration.

There is also the arguement of original intent versus the experience. There may have been an original intent when something is made but that changes over time with normal wear and tear (its experience). Keeping the "patina" is a way of documenting that experience and is a part of history which adds to and improves the original intent.

Finally, there is economics. Generally, and especially in the US, an original object will ALWAYS be worth more than a restored object.

Since the bike is in great condition now, my opinion is to clean off the rust (to keep from further damage to the bike) and use a non-perminant means to prevent it from coming back (wax instead of clear coat). Don't even touch up the color. If you want shiny new paint, get a new bike.

Well, not exactly great condition. Where the stays say TREK at the seat cluster, the rust is pretty bad. Also some edges on the BB lugs are a little crusty. The top of the seat post clamp area is bare metal and rusting. The remainder of the damage is heavy chips down to bare metal which can be seen on the
right side of the head tube. There are also several spots where you can see rust veins spreading out under the paint. It needs some care before it gets any worse.
Imron was originally supposed to be an aircraft paint, as it has high chemical
resistance almost like powdercoat. You can spill avgas on it for years without damage. No rocks at 10,000 feet though, only bugs which it handled well. The drawbacks.... Scratches are very hard to polish out of it. I have an 86 Ford conversion van painted with the stuff. Waxing and polishing does literally nothing to make it shine better. It shines very well on it's own thank goodness, due to the durability. But scratches? Good luck, lol. The other thing is chipping, something it will resist to a point, but when it does, look out. A good friend in high school had his 78 Trans Am custom painted with Imron. He took it into Houston and parked at a now defunct amusement park. When he came out, a silver dollar sized chip had popped out of the upper door panel. The theory at the time was the jacked up 4x4 parked next to him, opened the bottom corner of the door into his nicely painted T/A. That is some really hard paint. It was a fad, mainly. Everyone had a friend or knew someone that had a car painted with the stuff, or wanted to. Not saying it's a bad paint, though. It will shine for decades with little care.

I think I'll most likely end up fixing the rust, and spot paint the worst places. I'm confident a match can be found, especially given the popularity of dark gray paints lately. Duplicolor has a very wide range of touch up colors. Clean up the rims, polish the hubs and other bright stuff, rewrap, recable and tire/tube it, and it should be good as new.,,,,BD

If powdercoating a nice old Trek is blasphemy, I'm hellbound twice over.

It's your bike, do what makes you happy. If you want to preserve it as art, clean it up and hang it on the wall. If you want to use it for its intended purpose, bring it up to whatever spec you want and ride the heck out of it. That is, after all, what it was designed and built for.

Actually, Dr. D., my preference is to chew them off, but then I'm old school.

Neal

Is having case hardened teeth a requirement to work at MIT? Pastors need thick skins!

BD,

I respectively disagree with jab. Original art is one of a kind, unique, like no other piece. It might be similar, but it's not mass produced and sold showroom. Now, if the Trek in question had been custom built for Lance Armstrong prior to beginning his TdF career, then I believe preserving it "as is" makes sense. But since it is not, do as you please, and enjoy the project and the subsequent ride!

Not all art is truely unique, prints have been around for thousands of years and have been embraised by many great artists (like him or not, Warhol was a great artist). The first massed produced book, the Guttenberg bible, certainly is not unique. I also collect chairs. Furniture handcrafted in the 18th century or mass produced in the early to mid 20th century are not unique. I would never recolorize a Warhol, rebind a Guttenberg, strip and refinish a Chippendale or put new leather on a Bauhaus chair.

That said, I would also never stop an owner of these items from doing those actions, it is a free country. My Olmo posted here is certainly not anything special and is a candidate for a repaint but personally, I like to think about the history that patina holds.

And my wife was groaning about me buying another set of tires for it, lol. Little does she know the choices I have to agonize over,,,,,BD

If you asked my students, I'd think it's a more posterior part of my body that they'd describe as "case hardened," Bob.

Neal

BD,

Keep in mind, also, that for the price of a respray (unless you're doing the prep yourself and know someone to do it inexpensively - around here it's ~$200 for a prep and powdercoat) you can probably find an identical or nearly identical frameset with excellent original paint (although, admittedly, eBay is making that harder to do).

I went that route rather than repaint, and I've ended up with two frames!

I opted for the repaint (via Dr. Deltron). The original frame had a a good deal of surface rust and I got the whole bike for $26. I got the Trek decals from Dan Siniff via vintage trek (mswantak was out of commission at the time) for $20 and the reynolds decals from flea bay for $10.

The bike looks great, ride great and gets a good bit of attention from other riders. If the original paint were better, I would not have gottent it re-painted but the rust made me uneasy and I wanted to make sure he frame was solid. I am very happy with the result.

The invoice that was posted in a previous thread regarding the total cost did not take into account the Merlin I shipped the good Dr. If memory serves me, he sent me money and the frame!

[IMG][/IMG]

I'm in favor of fixed gear conversions, but this kind of surgery is not necessary.

Fender, that is one beeeautiful Trek. Nice work Dr. Deltron! (Oh! Now I spot the face in the place of the headbadge! I thought I recognized the color.)

Thanks pastorbob, your Paramount was the original inspiration, albeit my project went a bit of different direction!

Yep that is one beauty of a trek. I like the understated original slate color mine came with. Something refined about it. The cost of painting isn't bothering me too much, as I have the equipment and expertise, and work in a place where I can get Centari or Chromabase at 10% over cost. The main thing that bothered me is if the bike would be thought of as just another repainted bike.

My LBS's owner powdered a Rossin and it was a top notch job. This is the guy I planned on using. No powder on the fork crown race area, none in the BB threads, or anything you'd expect. I believe the BB and head tube were faced before it was shipped. They're about 25 miles north of town, so shipping was less of a hassle. The place I used to use shot it so thick, it was like they forgot anything was attached to the frame. Sometimes they did an okay job, but for the most part they didn't.,,,,BD

'Dued - I hope I didn't provoke any angst with a comment a few days ago - in jest, mind you - that doing an "upgrade" on a vintage trek might be heresy. That was a joke. It had a smiley. I'm compelled to emphasize that, since I went out and bought an Elance 400 ('87) within hours of that posting. If there was anything serious in my chiding, I'd be about to eat some hard-boiled crow. So, I was joking, OK?

I didn't even know handlebars came in, what, 32cm??! Not quite the fit for a former college fullback. I'd also forgotten what a PITA it was adjusting sidepulls. Lessee, ... I've got a set of double pivots in a drawer, and a pair of aero levers, and set of 7-speed shifters ... but it's time to be looking for a 44cm set of handlebars.

Epiphany, not heresy. These are bikes to be ridden, and to me that now means using it regularly while doing what it takes to keep the frame in shape for my grandson to ride one day. Re-coating, I think, will be an occasional necessity if that's to be accomplished.

Yep, understood. I'm one of the most laid back guys you'll meet, even if only in text. No problem 32mm handlebars? That reminds me of the 55 Schwinn Vette I have. It feels like my hands are crossed the grips are so close together, lol. By contrast, a Maruishi I also have is the widest bar of all the road bikes I have. Very comfy, as I'm also a bit wide shouldered.

Update on the paint match. Nothing in Duplicolor, all of them are too light. I wanted to powder it anyway, looks like a strong option at this point. Stripping Imron may be tons of fun with chemicals. I could always get it media blasted and prime/paint it myself.,,,,BD

Is there any way to get paint codes for Trek bikes? Does vintage-trek.com have that kind of info? I could mix it up in centari, but starting from scratch is nearly impossible as anyone who mixes paint could tell you. I might be able to get close, but it would waste a lot of materials.,,,,BD

No paint codes that I have ever seen. Tom Kellog up here in PA does new Imron painting. I got a quote from him and I think it was about $400 for a one color spray. That did not include frame prep. It was one of the factors that sent me to Dr. D.

If I could make that money I wouldn't need to have a job anymore. Hmmm...,,,,BD

Bikedued,

I'm old enough to remember when Trek only sold frames. The idea was that the rider would select a set of components to match their own taste, budget and needs. Then after a few years, they started offering components, but to me it always seemed a bit, I dunno, sad. Sort of like, "Here's some components if you don't want to think through the choices yourself or just need something to get you started."



I collect frame geometry and ski data (link follows), so I understand the collector's impulse for completeness. In this way, I understand some bike collectors zeal for spec correctness for components on vintage bikes. And for some bikes, I think it makes sense since the bike was known as particular combination of frame and components. All I'm saying is that the thrust of the early Treks was modify, modify, modify. In my mind, you haven't made a vintage Trek really yours until you've selected the components for it yourself. Or putting it another way, I consider a vintage Trek with rider selected components to be more authentic to the spirit of vintage Treks than an old Trek that is specification complete. In my mind, a specification complete Trek isn't really complete yet. Sort of like a box still in a cardboard box.

In terms of mods to the components, I've no problems putting components of any generation on my vintage treks. Choose components that make you happy. I like the Nitto Noodles, higher Technomic stems and Crane Creek brake levers. None of them are vintage but it doesn't matter. The vintage Trek ideal in my mind is excellence. If you want to spread that rear end to 130 and slap a modern drive train in there, do it. Heck, I had my 79 510 spread to 130 and don't regret it for a second.

Paint is a very personal thing. If I had to get my Treks repainted, my desire would be to get them redone with the right stickers and Imron paint. However, it depends on which bike. I would sell some of my skis (a huge deal) to get my 79 510 repainted correctly. I love, love, love this bike. Its 022 through out and the perfect geometry for me. On the other hand... my beater bike is a 83 311, which has lowly MangyX maintubes and hi-ten forks and stays. I'd choose to have fun with that bike. Powdercoat maybe in a wild color? And I definitely would play with the the stickers. At somepoint I'm going to slap dual down tube and seat tube Trek stickers on it like they did with the race bikes. A good Trek fan would get the joke I hope!!!

That 560 is a very nice bike with 501 maintube and mangalloy stays and forks -- not far off of the 600 I rode for many years. IMO, it's worth a decent paint job and vintage style stickers. But, I'm just a sucker for that old look.