cudak888 

https://cgi.ebay.com/1965-ish-Schwinn...QQcmdZViewItem

I can't seem to figure this one out. Is this a complete imposter, or is it a '40s Paramount that had a makeover in the early '60s, along with a new fork?

-Kurt

Rabid Koala

I saw that and wondered the same thing.

Picchio Special

Looks like perhaps a 50's tourist model (judging by dropout with chainguard eyelet, and also the SN on bottom bracket). Lugs look plausible. Looks like it was considerably reworked. I got this one wrong when I first saw it and though it was a complete fake.

Scooper

Kurt, I can't figure this one out, either. The rear dropouts look like they're stamped instead of forged, and have two eyelets. The lugs don't look right, the seat stays at the cluster don't have the signature flat caps, single speed, skip tooth chain ring, no head badge (or even screw holes), and no serial number.

I'd steer well clear of this one.

dbakl

Quite a bit of discussion of this on the classicrendezvous list. Seems to be a 50s Tourist, repainted sortalike a 60s Paramount...

pastorbobnlnh 

If it had always been a single speed, would not the rear dropouts face towards the back of the bike? It's tough to tell, but the stem looks simular to the one on my Continental.

Scooper

Exactly, Bob. If it were a track bike, the rear dropouts would have rear opening horizontal track dropouts, but in the seller's answer to a question he says, "The reae (SIC) drop outs have been there for the 30 years or so we have had it and to our knowledge the bicycle has never been altered. The bicycle is a single speed so my understanding is that there would be no derailer, I did take close up pictures so that you can verify this."

Picchio Special

Those dropouts definitely appeared on 50's Tourist models. Many 50's Paramounts also didn't have the flat caps. There is a serial number: it's on the BB and would make sense for a 50's bike. It could very well be a 50's Tourist model converted to single speed.
And yeah, it's been really messed with and wuold be a huge chore to return to it's original state. The fact that it may have started life as a genuine Paramount doesn't mean "steer clear" isn't good advice.

Otis

If the price stays where it's at or at least close it would still make a very neat road going fixed gear and has some cool parts. I'm sure was the intention of the person who cobbled it together years a go.

I agree trying to restore it to original Tourist specs would be pure folly. But still kind of a cool bike. It will be interesting to see if the bidders can control themselves?

Otis

If the price stays where it's at or at least close it would still make a very neat road going fixed gear and has some cool parts. I'm sure that was the intention of the person who cobbled it together years a go.

I agree trying to restore it to original Tourist specs would be pure folly. But still kind of a cool bike. It will be interesting to see if the bidders can control themselves?

Scooper

Mea culpa! You're right about the dropouts and the seat stay ends. The lugs even look like they might be right.

I pulled out my 1955 dealer catalog, and here's the Paramount Tourist:

BobHufford

Here is Frank W. Schwinn's personal '52 Tourist. Note the lugs and dropouts. I think this lends some credo to the claim of the sellers that this might be a "limited edition" bike as they were told (as this is not the run of the mill tourist with the key-hole lugs -- ala Wastyn).

Bob

rm -rf

It looks like it has shorter chainstays than the catalog model. Or does the 26 inch refer to the wheels, if so, how do the brakes line up with a 27 inch wheel?

Picchio Special

Well, it's easy to be right after being wrong and then getting schooled. I was convinced this bike was phony originally. And I have that pic of the green Tourist Bob Hufford posted, so I should have known better. Plus, I've looked long and hard at those Tourist model pics, since I've long coveted one. (I now own an original '61 P-11 in radiant blue that needs a lot of cleaning up.) The world of Paramounts is indeed treacherous, even for those of us that have studied them for a while. It's the collective expertise that counts.

dbakl

Interesting thing is everbody has been calling it a "Tourist", and right on the chainguard it says Paramount. I guess its a Paramount Tourist! The front hunb looks like a Paramount hub in the catalog pic, rear on the ebay bike is Paramount. Fork on the ebay bike looks like a more modern Paramount with a Campagnolo quick release hub. Crank is Campagnolo track. Could have all come from Schwinn in some strange reality I guess.

Picchio Special

Yep - Paramount Tourist model is what I meant. And yep - it's definitely not an original bike.
My '61 P-11 has Campagnolo 1010 A dropouts, by the way, with the chainguard eyelet brazed on.
Schwinn and "strange reality" are often compatible.

Scooper

Bingo! The 1955 Paramount Tourist had 26" wheels.

Grand Bois

I'd restore it back to a three speed. A bike with a lightweight steel frame and a three speed hub is a joy to ride. I took my first ride on my '59 Carlton three speed conversion today and I'm hooked.

BobHufford

I'd restore it back as well. I think it was something special as a Tourist. Right now it's a mutt.

I had a chance to buy this one for $700 and didn't do it and have been kicking myself for years ...

https://www.geocities.com/sldbgallery...64parat01.html

Bob

nlerner

The 50s Raleigh Record Ace (top of the line model, essentially custom outfitted) also came in a Tourist model as shown on this catalog page: https://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bi...48Catalog2.jpg

Neal

Picchio Special

Ok, that does it. My '61 P-11 just went to the top of the priority list for clean-up. It's completely original, I believe down to the tires, but it needs a lot of cleaning - the paint and decals are very good, but there is quite a bit of dirt and corrosion on the parts. Of course, I only paid $40 for it, so that's not such a big deal. And as I mentioned recently to Bob, it has the Paramount crankset.

BobHufford

Interesting that the RRA would not have a chainguard (but would have that big a front mud flap). Trying to keep it somewhat light I suppose ...

Bob

BobHufford

Yay! If you look at the statistics page on Paramounts at Waterford you can see that there were 270 total Paramounts in 1959 and 420 in 1965. If you figure that probably less than half of those were tourist models (is that a correct assumption?) these these are very rare bikes and need to be preserved! (If you think of how many were made in a certain size and color, then the count gets even smaller -- then you think of something like the use of lugs like the bike on eBay and then you probably get to single digits ...)

Bob
'75 Paramount (1 of 875)

Picchio Special

Bob,

That actually brings up another question I have about the rebuilt 50's Tourist on eBay. That bike appears to combine the starburst graphics with the pinstriping that appeared on the earlier Disneyland bikes. My '61 has the Disneyland graphics with the more elaborate (hand) pinstriping pattern, as seen on the Waterford site as part of the Disneyland repro decal set. In the database, the '63 dealer catalog shows the Disneyland graphics and detailing; the '64 Tourist you linked to shows the starburst decal set with the later, simpler pinstriping pattern. So my question is: do we know if the starburst decals ever coexisted with the earlier style of pinstriping originally seen with the Disneyland package? Or is that juxtaposition on the eBay bike incorrect?

BobHufford

I've never seen the two together. Certainly the use of the pinstriping on the downtube is incorrect.*

Bob
* Non-standard anyway