Awhile back I found a Peugeot PGN 10 cheap at the thrift store. When I finally gave up on getting the seatpost out I decided to salvage the nice looking Maillard/Mavic wheel set for another bike. The original freewheel was a 13-24 Helicomatic so when a 13-32 Helicomatic came along I jumped on it since I ride in hilly terrain. Well the new freewheel came today but unfortunately it's meant for a much larger hub diameter, even though it is also meant for a helix style hub.

So the question is, what model number/style came with the wheelset, and what model/style is this larger diameter Helicomatic freewheel? I doubt I'll try to salvage either the wheelset or new freewheel now, I just want to know how to market them to the next sucker, er potential buyer.

PS They're both 6 speeds.

I might be interested in that freewheel if it will work with the hub I have. Someone will have to answer the question first though.

Thats a new one. I was under the impression all helicomatics were the same size.

Uh oh... stumped the mechanic. Never a good sign!

Here's some photos showing what I'm up against.
(all measurements are quick and dirty, not exact)

The first one is the original hub outer diameter. (27mm)
The second is the inner diameter of the original freewheel. (26mm)
The third is the inner diameter of the new freewheel. (32mm)

So as you can see, the problem is the difference between the two freewheel inner diameters is about 6mm.

If the cogs have the same size inner diameter, simply swap the cogs on the freewheel body. (likely requires chain whips and a pin wrench.

Yeah I thought of that too. It's hard to tell without tearing them down, but it looks like there's too much of a difference between them to be interchangeable. I was hoping someone would know for sure before I go that route. Anybody?

Stumped me too, and I have several Helicomatic bikes? Not all Peugeots. All the bikes I have you can swap them back and forth. Including the PGN 10. Weird! Thankfully I have only run into one really worn cassette, and I have one spare on another wheelset that has never been skip tested.,,,,BD

I am pawning off my vintage french crap too! whoo hoo! It is sad french parts didn't get quite the praise as they deserved. They had some good ideas. And man look at the old Jubilee derailleur...curves in all the right places!

Yellow Jersey has some info on helicomatics. Your situation is not mentioned, however there is a link at the bottom of the page to email helico specific questions. Maybe you can find your answer there.


https://www.yellowjersey.org/helico.html

Yeah, I reread that page before posting, and have emailed that addy before and not gotten a response. Thanks for the reply though!

Here's a couple more photos showing the difference in hub diameters...

Looks as if there were two Helico hubs made in different freewheel inner diameters. Never seen this before.

-Kurt

New one on me...
Maybe they did an MTB specific model??

maybe so...I've also only see one size tool for the lockring and this looks like it would require a larger diameter lockring and therefore a larger diameter tool...perhaps.

It still looks to me that the cogs themselves may have the same inner diameter (at least from here, 3500 miles away). I would atleast try it.

I saw a touring bike (a Trek 720 iirc) sell on ebay a few days ago with a Helicomatic wheel. I though it odd at the time but now I wonder if there was a heavy duty hub for touring bikes.

Curiosity got the best of me and I went ahead and carefully(1) busted off the lock rings of both fws in the hope of swapping out just the cogs. No go, not even close.

Back to the drawing board.

(1) This is a NOS freewheel that may be going back to the seller. I didn't want to mark it up, and in fact didn't.

I see alot of old bikes and parts but this too is a new one for me as well.

It was, the idea was that you could easily remove the freewheel and replace a broken drive side spoke on the road, rather than at a shop with all of the much heavier tools required.

Obviously no need for this in a race with a team car and spare wheels.

Yes, I fully understand the theory behind the Helicomatic design. What I'm trying to figure out is why this NOS Helix style freewheel I recently purchased (see photos in this thread) is 5mm larger in inner diameter than every other Maillard Helicomatic freewheel/hub out there. Are you saying you know of such a beast?

This scares me.

Over the past couple of years, I've counted on you guys to fill in the gaps for all those years I've been out of cycling.

Up to this point, you've all performed admirably. The answer has always been there, normally within 24 hours of the original posting. Usually more than one answer, and upon further discussion it's been figured out which is truly the correct answer.

Now I'm looking at a question where every follow up post is essentially saying, "I'm confused."

I think Armageddon has arrived.

I have used the hubs for years on commuter bikes (in spite of many people hating them). The greatest issue (problem) was the necessary use of smaller diameter ball bearings for the smaller diameter hub threads. Perhaps this was a more recent attempt to remedy the problem by producing a larger freewheel opening and allow a larger hub which could accept 1/4" bearings - probably a good idea.

Are there any possible logos marked anywhere on the new larger diameter freewheel? The original ones from Maillard/Spidel showed no inscriptions at all apart from tooth count numbers on the cogs. Sounds odd, but I wonder if another company had later bought the patent and began an (apparently failed) attempt to market the "improved" hubs.

Fascinating!

Thats an option but not the true intent. It was originaly intended for quick changes of the gear ratios to accomodate a variety of terrain.

I'm surprised no one has come along with an answer too. I've provided a couple timely bumps to keep it on the front page in the hopes someone in the know notices the thread. Maybe it's time to insert some meta name tags like "Sheldon Brown" in the hope they Google search this site for requests for their assistance. Know any other likely experts?

Only markings are the tooth count on the 21 and 26 tooth cogs. No other logos or writing.

I'll behave myself. I came across some info on 'sport' helicomatics that use a 'larger' lock ring. 'Sport' models are identifed by 1/4" bearings upon disassembly. It seems the larger gear body may be for a 'sport' hub.

I'm still researching....

Oh no, you're doing fine. I enjoyed reading the page above.

I believe you're onto something with the Sport model as this freewheel will definitely need a larger lock ring.

Update: I just reread the Yellow Jersey site again and this is what's said about the Sport...

"These hub axles interchange perfectly to Helicomatic Sport hubs. The models Helicomatic 500 and Helicomatic 600 use a different and not available cone . Top quality highly polished 700 Professionnel Helicomatic hubs use both an unusual cone and a uniquely fine threaded axle . Neither part is available. 700Pros use a larger chromed locknut in that special thread, also not available. Type 500, 600 and 700 Professionnel use smaller ball bearings. If you open your rear hub and see nine bearings which are 1/4", then you have a Sport hub and this is the correct axle set. If not, we have no parts here for you."

Seems like the difference between those various models is in axle and cone sizes, not hub outer diameters.

I guess you can take this part about the 700 Professionnel to mean two different things: the "larger chromed locknut in that special thread" refers to "a uniquely fine threaded axle ". Or you could take it to mean it's the lock ring on the hub for a larger freewheel. I dunno...