vincent_r

My Serge Mannheim, a french frame builder from Vieux-Thann, upgraded with pieces from a Decathlon cobra 720 (compact crankset, shimano 600 ultegra gruppo).

RobbieTunes

Welcome to the forum. That is really nice. Curves of the stem, post, and levers very much in sync.
Do the brake levers give you enough pull for the cantilevers?

Velocivixen

I've been reading this thread off and on, and slowly getting some pieces together. My question is regarding dropout spacing. Are most of you having to spread your rear dropouts? I have H Plus Son Archetype high polish rims laced to Suzue Road Classica hub that's 132.5, and most of my bikes have 126 spacing.

Thoughts? What have you guys/gals done? Thanks.

nesteel 

Cold setting the chainstays is an option, but not required. I have yet to run into a frame that won't take a 130mm back wheel with just the effort it takes to spread the chainsyayz by hand while inserting the wheel.

Velocivixen

OK, that's great. I guess I can give it a try to see how easy or challenging it will be to simply put the newer wheel in. My 1978 Univega Gran Rally might be my candidate. It's all original though, and I sort of don't want to change it too much. I've kept my eyes on local CL to see if there's a nice 50cm frame I could use.

I really like mid to late '80's Japanese bikes. Miyata, Panasonic, Univega, Nishiki, Centurion, etc. I looked at an '89 Centurion Le Mans - white with purple smoke fade, but the girl's dad made it into a single speed and CUT OFF the downtube shifter bosses. I wouldn't use downtube anyway, and the tiny metal squares are there & would likely provide enough to support clamp on cable stops.

Thanks.

nesteel 

If originality concerns you, just take the old parts and store them. Allows you to return it to a stock configuration in the future.

vintagerando

Working on converting an older bike to Shimano STi Ultegra. I have Shimano 6500 cranks, FD, and brifter thingies. But, can I use a Shimano 6400 RD with this setup? As someone here mentioned, per Velobase, the 6400 will work with STI. But as anyone actually got this to work? Thanks.

lasauge 

Yes. With two exceptions (8-sp Dura Ace, and Dyna-Sis from the past few years) all Shimano rear derailers from the indexing era are interchangeably compatible as long as they're designed for the same number of speeds +/- 1 or sometimes 2 (meaning you can use a derailer meant for 9-sp on a bike with any 8, 9, or 10-sp setup, but an 8-sp chain will be too wide to fit through an 11-sp derailer, and vice versa).

vincent_r

Thanks!
Yes, the breaks are perfect.
The only "issue" with this upgrade is that the STI levers are 8sp, and the freewheel is a 7sp. I have a dead speed in the levers, the rear derailleur had to be carefully set, that's all.

obrentharris 

Very nice! I'm sure we would all like to see bigger pictures.
Welcome to the forum!
Brent

leicanthrope

It should be just fine. Tons of earlier bikes didn't have any sort of built-in supports or stops for clamped-on shifters or cable stops.

noglider 

I have a couple of questions for people who have made this conversion. My 1971 Raleigh Super Course and my 1974 Raleigh International are made similarly, particularly where the chainstays meet the dropouts. The ends of the dropouts are close to each other and leave little room for cogs. I was unable to put a 7-speed freewheel in either, because the last cog would scrape the chain stay. Converting to a freehub with an 8- or 9- or 10-speed freehub looks dicey. Has anyone dealt with this, or does anyone have an idea?

Here are pictures shot from above showing the small clearance between the frame and a 6-speed freewheel. I'm currently using 6-speed freewheels on both.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

noglider 

@ajotacece, are you in Spain? Welcome!

crank_addict

Absolutely. I've got a retro-roadie trial and error project collecting cobwebs but anxious to have it ready by Spring. Among many on my frame I had the same issue. I'm going with 8 speed f.w. and older ErgoPower shifters.

Swap to a longer axle and add a spacer or washer. Then slightly re-dish. Check your frame alignment and correct the dropout's.

Fortunately I was able to pick through a 5 lbs. pail of axles at a LBS. You want to try and keep those Campy quality axle cones but at last resort there's other axles with different threads / cones that will interchange. Or, find a longer axle, do your assembly and test fit with the axle extra long on the drive side. Then once satisfied cut / trim the long end.

I've also learned there's a lot more going on taking an early frame and going with a conversion. But isn't that half the fun anyways? Concerns of the frame stay tubing material both in the seat stays and the chain stay + style (crimped, ovalized, etc.), bottom bracket shell / spindle for chain alignment.

cheer's and good luck!

noglider 

@crank_addict, I'm not sure I follow. I know how to re-space an axle of a freewheel hub (and I know how to re-dish a wheel), but I don't know how to re-space a freehub. Did you re-space a freehub?

Thank you.

gomango

There you go.

That's the way to do it.

I bought a bike recently with all period correct parts, but there are many new items on the market that do the job better. imho

I'll just take off the extras and put them in a box.

They can just sit on the shelf with all of the other old parts..................

crank_addict

Tom.... me bad. Just re-read your want to go freehub. Sorry and no I have not done that.

Though if lucky and have a willing LBS with a pile of used stuff, its always fun digging and see what interchanges.

I found a good shop with a cool owner who took over an older established shop. Majority of the old 'choice' stuff is gone and they focus on new sales. But.... he has pales and bins of used 'junk' exactly for projects like this. Mixed old to later parts. Dismantled hub's, mixed lots of headsets, b.brackets, etc.. Literally have to dump the pales on the floor and dig through. Don't even think many would know what to do or identify half of it.

noglider 

My question is not about how to space the hub. The question is how to fit a hub into a frame with this particular shape. I think newer frames have thinner stays or they are bent differently so as to avoid coming near the cogs.

yipyipyip

Find someone with a 8/9/10/11-spd 130mm wheel and try to fit it in. Another thing to consider is that most newer cassettes have a 11 or 12 as the smallest cog, while for 6-spd that is typically 13 teeth. So you have more space with new cassettes in that sense.

Chrome Molly

Part of your issue is that a freewheel will have a larger small cog and that won't fit inside the frame within the "dropout section". Sometimes a 12t can fit in there where a 13 can't even when using a 130 free hub wheel. Short of trying a 126mm spaced freewheel hub (if that's not what you're using already), you will have to try someone else's 130 wheel with a 12t/13t and see if it will clear. Sometimes you need to slide in the cog side of the wheel first (and from the bottom), then adjust and align the other side. I have had frames where I was simply SOL, and others where even though a 13t would fit, a mild bit of chain suck would lock up the chain in the section where the chain stay regains it's round shape (if too close or too high). If you don't want to go 130, then try a wheel with a 126 free hub and go 8 of 9 on 7 with a hubbub shimergo setup using a veloce brifter.

RobbieTunes

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for posting a bike doing what it's intended to do...travel!

RobbieTunes

Centurion ironman dave scott

noglider 

@Chrome Molly, thank you. My takeaway from that is that even if a 7-speed freewheel with a 13t last cog doesn't fit, a more-speed cassette with 12T last cog might. Still no guarantees, so I should try a borrowed wheel before building one and committing to a conversion.

Velocivixen

@noglider - great question you asked, as I'm wondering the same thing. I will watch for responses.

I have components for a 10-speed conversion, except need bb, chain, cassette and front derailleur. I have everything else. Plan on using VO Grand Cru MK II double crankset.

The wheels in question - H Plus Son Archetype with Suzue Road Classica hubs at 132 OLD fit easily when I tried last. I'm thinking, as you've mentioned, perhaps a cassette with the smallest tooth as an 11 might work fine. That means that I have to buy a cassette and try it.
@RobbieTunes - nice call on the bike. Aren't those triathlon geometry bikes? I'm eyeing a 1989 Centurion Le Mans. It's set up as a single speed and has all its frame parts except down tube shifter braze ons. I'm waiting for a bit before I contact the seller again. I took it for a brief test ride.

Chrome Molly

@noglider, you are correct in that it is a trial and error sort of process. Every little bit of clearance helps to clear the gap available. Another thing to try is mounting the wheel without the skewer attached initially. Sometimes you can flex the frame more to clear the gearing in a way you can't with the skewer on. First simply eyeball it to see if there's any chance of it working when it's all together. Every frame is different.