Wino Ryder

[QUOTE=JunkYardBike;5669611]

Again, Wino Ryder, are you sure those are 'Syncros'?



You mean like I may be guessing?...or... I'm really not sure, but I think so??


just kidding........The shifters in my pics are NOS 'Record' Syncro 2, for 8-speed marked on the box with '92. The right shifter came with a small spring loaded cable adjuster (which I thought was pretty cool) along with a small Campagnolo instruction book and set of stainless cables. It was all straight forward and easy to set up, really. Once I got it all set up and adjusted, fine tuning with the small adjuster on the shifter, it shifted very well.

JunkYardBike

Wait, are you absolutely, positively certain someone didn't swap boxes on you?

Hmm, so the cable adjuster wasn't actually on the lever? NOS Syncro 8 speed levers pop up on ebay consistently, but in the photos, I never see the cable adjuster. Of course, I've not asked the sellers if they are somewhere in the box.

cs1

The Syncro II used the adjuster and 3 springs on their Ergo gear. The first gen Syncro used 2 springs on it's Ergo gear. They aren't interchangeable as far as I know. The 2nd version with an adjuster can use current 8,9 or 10 sp barcon Ergo gears. That means a set of 10 sp DT shifters is possible. You can use current barcons with a LeTour adaptor as DT shifters also. Actually, when you pull the rubber of the barcons you'll find a beautiful set of shifters underneath.

Tim

JunkYardBike

Not to sound obtuse, though I'm sure I do: so the Syncro II's were actually fairly functional, or do they exhibit the same overshift problems? According to the Campagnolo's own advertising text (quoted above), the overshift seems to have been resolved on the redesign.

What I mean by the missing cable adjuster: here's a set advertised on ebay as Syncro II, and yet no visible adjuster. Perhaps they were packaged in the box separate from the shifter (though it may be missing in this case):

cyclotoine

learn from the master of syncro:
https://www.tearsforgears.com/2007/05...of-syncro.html

Syncro I: had little extra lever to shift between friction and indexed
Syncro II: had knurled thingy to switch between friction and indexed
1991: I think the I and II designation was done away with, and we see 8 speed syncro with flat lever and bigger barrel (i.e. no converting syncro I and II to 8 speed), lever is still flat, can still go to friction mode. These must be rare as they only saw one year of production.
1992: curved levers, no more friction mode, little barrel adjuster... still referred to as syncro but unlike syncro I or II.
1995: 3rd spring added.
2001: discontinued

this is how I see it.

cyclotoine

these look like true syncro 2 (barrel size are the same right and left) i.e. 6 and 7 speed only. It's all comeing together now. I have syncro I, syncro II and the 1992-1995 syncros... I should get some more inserts and start having fun with these.

T-Mar

The pictured levers are the 1991, Syncro II, 8 speed compatible. The right barrel is about 33% larger in diameter and about 50% thicker. It's harder to tell in the box, but when you see them on a frame they look totally mismatched (and consequently very ugly)! I can post pics in about a week. They work well, provided you use a rear derailleur specifically designed for Syncro and the Rohloff (or similar) chain with the 8 speed Camapgnolo cassette. However, they are still clunkier and need more adjustment than SIS.

I received a custom Marinoni with Syncro II C-Record in 1991. A very nice bicycle, but it was shelved in short order for a stock 1991 Marinoni frameset with Dura-Ace 7400, which was far superior to the C-Record, both in braking and shifting.

Syncro and attempts to mate it with pre-Syncro derailleurs and freewheels often lead to frustration. There are some combinations that work reasonably well, but nothing pre-1992 works as well as SIS. 1985-1991 were very bleak years for Campagnolo.

JunkYardBike

Ah, nice find, and very helpful.

Spoken like a true Campy affectionado! Personally, I think I'll stick with friction for now, and perhaps upgrade to Ergos later...though it seems seems the early 8 speed ergos had issues as well...

cyclotoine

I see that now, thanks T-mar! Maybe that is why the regina 90 7 speed freewheel never worked will with the 1993 mirage/post 1991 syncro 7 speed setup I had...

now that we have cleared things up lets make them confused again.

Was there not a regina syncro 90 and a regina syncro 92 freehweel? Would assuming that regina had to update the freewheels in order to work with the new syncro system in 1991/2 it be a plausible association to make?

Wino Ryder

[QUOTE]



"YES..YES...I confess.....It was the UPS man"

(sob).....he swapped boxes with me.....tole me if I told anybody Brown would come after me. My life has been a living hell ever since then, having to run and jump into a ditch every time I saw a UPS truck. LOL


The right shifter came with the small spring loaded barrel adjuster already installed. It was not loose in the box. The box says SYNCRO 1 1- 8V, and on each corner is a yellow tag that says "1992 New Product"

The instruction book (the english part) which has an exploded diagram of the shifters and DT shifter boss

SHIFTING LEVERS FOR GEAR - FRONT DERAILLEUR:

1. Preparation of the frame

Clean all traces of paint or chrome off the boss with the
Campagnolo mill code 1185001, or an emory cloth

2. Shifting levers assembly

Proceed to assemble the levers as indicated in the drawings 1 and 2.
For the index shifting of the gear, checkthat the two plates of A bush
are perfectly inserted on the plates of the boss: tighten the wing nut completely.

3. Adjustment of the tension of the rear derailleur shifting cable

The right hand gear lever is supplied with an adjusting screw (C-Drwg 3)
which allows adjustment of the rear gear cable tension during use. Thanks
to this unique feature, any mis-alignment of the rear derailleur with reference
to the freewheel can be corrected: for example after a wheel change this may
be necessary.

luker

i went down this road last year. I have a 10 speed insert, but it doesn't fit in the 8 speed shifter. I actually tried to track down a machinist to build me one that would fit, but failed to interest anyone. well, I didn't try very hard, either. Anyone want to buy about 300 if I can get 'em made?

cyclotoine

you had the post 1995 shifters with 3 spring set up and it still didn't fit? Someone said above that the 10 speed insert from the barcons fit in the 1995-2001 DT shifters.

dbakl

OK, anyone know which these are? Will the levers fit the typical Campy frame braze-ons?

cyclotoine

Those look like one of the various types of c-record era friction shifters, bolted to old band parts to keep them in one piece? They will fit regular DT braze-ons.

JunkYardBike

I assume if they have all the internals shown on page 5 of the 1986 catalogue, they may. The presence of the roller bearings would also confirm they are retrofriction.

https://www.tuttocampybici.com/catalogs/re_1986.pdf

JunkYardBike

I like this copy from the 1986 catalogue, evidencing either Campagnolo's frustration in developing the indexed shifter system, or their reticence regarding the change:

"For those who do not wish to use the shift lever of the champions, it is possible to obtain the Record gear equipped with the Syncro shifter lever."

Peedtm

https://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
Shiftmate #3 mates Shimano 10sp shifters to Campy rear d./cassette

luker

the 10 speed insert is too big, and the widgie on the back doesn't fit into the appropriate widgie place (them's technical engineering terms...) I have a whole collection of campy shifters from the 80's and 90's...couldn't get it to work anywho...

dbakl

"Those look like one of the various types of c-record era friction shifters, bolted to old band parts to keep them in one piece? They will fit regular DT braze-ons."

Don't know. Clamp is original, came in a sealed Campagnolo bag I opened for only the photo. (Yeap, there's the clamp version on page 4.) I think I've had these close to 20 years.

"I assume if they have all the internals shown on page 5 of the 1986 catalogue, they may. The presence of the roller bearings would also confirm they are retrofriction."

Hmm, I'll study the catalog and take a look at one side. (Yeap, that's what they look like inside.) Clamp seems to be standard Campagnolo-type fitting for inside the lever.

I always thought these to be Campagnolo's answer to the Simplex Retrofriction, as opposed to "indexed".

dbakl

Here's another set on ebay. That's why I stick to the old stuff, this is all too confusing. What's wrong with a 5 speed freewheel?

https://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Recor...QQcmdZViewItem

JunkYardBike

No, those are Syncros...yours are retrofriction.

I was reading elsewhere, and Campy was actually being pretty admirable with their Syncro system. They were attempting to make them retro-compatible with rear derailleurs back to the 70s! (your NR stuff, dbakl)

Problem was, the cable pull was too short for effective indexed shifting. I'm sure there were other factors involved, of course, but it was a valiant effort to produce something that was repairable, could be modified, and extended service on 10-15 year old components.

Not sure these are exactly the same...and they seem to be missing the fixing bolts.

These are a likely match, as I believe 'Frizione Differenziata' indicates retrofriction, or 'differentiated friction'

And here's another likely match.

JunkYardBike

I just noticed. Any mods reading this thrilling thread care to edit the errors in my thread title?

cyclotoine

these are also post CdA, and the seller is obviously unaware of that.

those all look like the retro friction, I think they might actually be called doppler or something.. I can't believe how much the middle set went for I have a pristine set myself... I might use them on the Faggin and put my simplex shifters aside with my TA cranks and my sachs new succes RD for that day a long way off down the road when I can build myself a velo orange style randonneur.

As far as adapting to old derailleurs, I think that was mentioned earlier in the thread, you could get a barrel adjuster that fit into nuovo and super record RDs to faciliate this.

JunkYardBike

Ah, but I meant their entire design was doomed because they went with a shorter pull to accommodate the older rear mechs. The barrel adjuster was probably one of many later 'fixes'. So it was their excellent service that caused them to stumble on indexing.

luker

this is America, dude! more is always, always better.

The retrofrictions from Campy have always astounded me with their resale value; so much that I have never bought a pair. They made a (rare) set from Nuovo/Super record castings...those babies will set you back!