Not sure what brand of 1970's 10 speed I have
12-09-07, 11:19 AM
#26
Lanky Lass
T-Mar, miamijim, BobHufford, Scooper, caterham, Sheldon Brown, and a host of others here are spoken of with reverence by the rest of us.
Call them the gurus of C & V.
East Hill
Call them the gurus of C & V.
East Hill
__________________
___________________________________________________
TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
___________________________________________________
TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
12-09-07, 01:37 PM
#27
Member
Thread Starter
Cooker & Luker, This bike hasn't been ridden in 20+ years, but you're right, I really should clean up that chain! I've kept it for sentimental reasons and have recently been trying to decide whether it's worth having it overhauled.
Redneckwes: The wing nuts don't have any labeling, but the metal pieces attached to it has a # imprinted, "4532", and the other components say SunTour. What are the crimped "drops" exactly? As far as guessing Japanese, I think you are correct, just from my own recollections from 30 years ago, but I just can't say with certainty.
John E:
1) 5 cogs (?)
2) Centerpull brakes
3) I'm not quite sure where and what to measure for the width of the "bottom bracket".
4) Chaining tooth count ratio- Not sure what is meant by this either, but I tried to count the teeth on the chain the best I could and it was something like 116.
5) There are no decals left due to the Custom German Paint job I had on it. One thing, though, is that the metal "brackets", if you will, that hold the derailer cable, on each side of the pump pegs say "SunTour". Is it possible that SunTour made it's own line of bikes?
6) There is a red plastic button in the center of the front cogs (as you can see in the pics) that is hard to determine what it says, but I think "Silver Cotterless" ??? with an imprint below that in the metal stamped "SR".
7) Luker mentioned someone named T-Mar that is the "undisputed serial number translation expert". Hopefully I will be able to use that resource.
If it would help to take some closer pictures, or if you can help me with the questions I couldn't answer, please let me know.
Redneckwes: The wing nuts don't have any labeling, but the metal pieces attached to it has a # imprinted, "4532", and the other components say SunTour. What are the crimped "drops" exactly? As far as guessing Japanese, I think you are correct, just from my own recollections from 30 years ago, but I just can't say with certainty.
John E:
1) 5 cogs (?)
2) Centerpull brakes
3) I'm not quite sure where and what to measure for the width of the "bottom bracket".
4) Chaining tooth count ratio- Not sure what is meant by this either, but I tried to count the teeth on the chain the best I could and it was something like 116.
5) There are no decals left due to the Custom German Paint job I had on it. One thing, though, is that the metal "brackets", if you will, that hold the derailer cable, on each side of the pump pegs say "SunTour". Is it possible that SunTour made it's own line of bikes?
6) There is a red plastic button in the center of the front cogs (as you can see in the pics) that is hard to determine what it says, but I think "Silver Cotterless" ??? with an imprint below that in the metal stamped "SR".
7) Luker mentioned someone named T-Mar that is the "undisputed serial number translation expert". Hopefully I will be able to use that resource.
If it would help to take some closer pictures, or if you can help me with the questions I couldn't answer, please let me know.
12-09-07, 02:11 PM
#28
Super Course fan
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost on the windswept plains of the Great Black Swamp
Posts: 2,720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
thea vc,
The part of the frame that holds the real axle is called the dropout, the parts that go from the dropout to the rest of the frame are called stays. On lower end bicycles, the stays are crimped onto the dropouts like you would crimp a connector onto electrical wire. On higher end frames they are fitted and brazed.
The part of the frame that holds the real axle is called the dropout, the parts that go from the dropout to the rest of the frame are called stays. On lower end bicycles, the stays are crimped onto the dropouts like you would crimp a connector onto electrical wire. On higher end frames they are fitted and brazed.
__________________
I have a white PX-10, a Green Dawes Galaxy and an Orange Falcon, now I'm done.
I have a white PX-10, a Green Dawes Galaxy and an Orange Falcon, now I'm done.
12-09-07, 08:02 PM
#29
Prefers Cicero
The chrome spoke protector on the rear wheel, or "dork disk", is cool. Most bikes have a plastic one. Some snobbish people take that off, but a chrome one is classy in a dorkish way.
12-09-07, 10:02 PM
#30
Senior Member
Hmm. OK, this is kind of fun. I've never seen tubes like that on a bike like that.
My highly unedjumakated opinion is Japanese. It's the combination of the practical pump pegs with the hearty yet unfancy lugs and ridiculously sculpted tubes.
Eric (a name not spoken with reverence)
My highly unedjumakated opinion is Japanese. It's the combination of the practical pump pegs with the hearty yet unfancy lugs and ridiculously sculpted tubes.
Eric (a name not spoken with reverence)
12-09-07, 10:54 PM
#31
Elitest Murray Owner
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,657
Bikes: 1972 Columbia Tourist Expert III, Columbia Roadster
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
I was going to say Japanese, but I'm having second thoughts because of those pump pegs, and the headset. The rims also look dimpled, which is more of a European than Japanese thing.
Last edited by Mos6502; 12-09-07 at 11:05 PM.
12-10-07, 12:58 AM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Bikes: Casati, ,Peugot,Mitchell,Raliegh,Nishiki
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
the Gods of biking will beam down T-Mar to give you the answer you seek !
12-10-07, 09:29 AM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,039 Times
in
1,877 Posts
If I had seen one of these before, I would surely have remembered it! As previously suggested, the crimped chainstays suggest entry level and likely a department store brand. The fluted tubes are certainly unique for this leval and the the presence of a brazed-on chain stay protector is interesting, as is the cylindrical cable stop. The lugs are also quite stylish, though thick, all of which is out of the ordinary for the crimped chainstays.
The pump pegs suggest boom or pre-boom, in which case the predominantly Japanese components would suggest an Asian or North American brand. The components also appear boom era, though I'm wondering if they have not been replaced as there appears to be some mixing and matching. In particular, an aluminum, swaged, cotterless crankset is out of place on frame with crimped chainstays. In general, several of the components are a level or two better than what I would have expected.
I find it hard to believe that someone would do a pro repaint on such a frame. Perhaps the owner was trying to pass if it off as something better, due to the fluted tubes. This might also explain some of the components.
Certainly, the bicycle is a conversation piece, if nothing else. Sorry that I cannot offer anything definitive as to its origin. Looks like I just took one step down the reverance ladder.
The pump pegs suggest boom or pre-boom, in which case the predominantly Japanese components would suggest an Asian or North American brand. The components also appear boom era, though I'm wondering if they have not been replaced as there appears to be some mixing and matching. In particular, an aluminum, swaged, cotterless crankset is out of place on frame with crimped chainstays. In general, several of the components are a level or two better than what I would have expected.
I find it hard to believe that someone would do a pro repaint on such a frame. Perhaps the owner was trying to pass if it off as something better, due to the fluted tubes. This might also explain some of the components.
Certainly, the bicycle is a conversation piece, if nothing else. Sorry that I cannot offer anything definitive as to its origin. Looks like I just took one step down the reverance ladder.
Last edited by T-Mar; 12-10-07 at 09:36 AM.
12-10-07, 11:25 AM
#34
Member
Thread Starter
T-Mar: Thanks for checking it out; can you tell anything from the Serial Number at all? Are there any resources out there that can help track that down? I sure can't find any, on the net anyways.
I am the original owner of the bike and I know it didn't come from a Sears or JCPenney's type department store, but rather a Sporting Goods Store. I do not believe any components have been switched out, unless unknowingly during the paint job. The reason that I had it painted was this... When I was in college, (1980), in rural Montana, we lived across the street from this German bike manufacturer who did custom paint jobs. We kinda got to know the people and had it done at a very reasonable price. Anyway, it was, and is just a sentimental piece of my history. It's probably worth having it overhauled for that reason alone, since I've already packed it around for 30 years, and it was given to me by my parents for my sweet 16th birthday, on May 16, 1977.
I won't tell anybody that you have "fallen". lol
I am the original owner of the bike and I know it didn't come from a Sears or JCPenney's type department store, but rather a Sporting Goods Store. I do not believe any components have been switched out, unless unknowingly during the paint job. The reason that I had it painted was this... When I was in college, (1980), in rural Montana, we lived across the street from this German bike manufacturer who did custom paint jobs. We kinda got to know the people and had it done at a very reasonable price. Anyway, it was, and is just a sentimental piece of my history. It's probably worth having it overhauled for that reason alone, since I've already packed it around for 30 years, and it was given to me by my parents for my sweet 16th birthday, on May 16, 1977.
I won't tell anybody that you have "fallen". lol
12-10-07, 12:38 PM
#35
Really Old Senior Member
Sun Tour & SR scream Japanese. IF the bike was "European", I'd expect to see different brands.
The 3 arm crank says late 60's-mid? 70's. (I really don't listen to cranks
)
Chain rings are probably 36 & 48 tooth?
What are the tooth counts on the rear cogs? (Free Wheel)
The 3 arm crank says late 60's-mid? 70's. (I really don't listen to cranks
)Chain rings are probably 36 & 48 tooth?
What are the tooth counts on the rear cogs? (Free Wheel)
12-10-07, 12:44 PM
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Do you remember the name Iverson?
I recall strange tubing like this used on 10 spd's sold at the local Co-op when I was a kid.
We would comment that the shape of the tubing would make it difficult to slap on our favourite stickers.
These were sold as Iverson's. And this would be Saskatchewan, Canada in the mid 70's.
I recall strange tubing like this used on 10 spd's sold at the local Co-op when I was a kid.
We would comment that the shape of the tubing would make it difficult to slap on our favourite stickers.
These were sold as Iverson's. And this would be Saskatchewan, Canada in the mid 70's.
12-10-07, 12:46 PM
#37
Dolce far niente
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 10,704
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
14 Posts
The pump pegs and the lugs makes me think maybe Motobecane or Gitane, but the tubing is an oddity. I've seen a few original Gitane's with Suntour parts, so I know they were coming out of the factory that way. Any chance of looking at the bottom bracket cup for a clue? If it is marked 35xp1 on the fixed (drive) side, that might narrow things down.
__________________
"Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."
S. J. Perelman
"Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."
S. J. Perelman
12-10-07, 02:36 PM
#38
Cat 6
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,482
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times
in
118 Posts
Do you remember the name Iverson?
I recall strange tubing like this used on 10 spd's sold at the local Co-op when I was a kid.
We would comment that the shape of the tubing would make it difficult to slap on our favourite stickers.
These were sold as Iverson's. And this would be Saskatchewan, Canada in the mid 70's.
I recall strange tubing like this used on 10 spd's sold at the local Co-op when I was a kid.
We would comment that the shape of the tubing would make it difficult to slap on our favourite stickers.
These were sold as Iverson's. And this would be Saskatchewan, Canada in the mid 70's.
12-10-07, 03:01 PM
#39
Member
Thread Starter
Bill Kapaun: I think you are on to something. I always thought the bike was Japanese, and the brand was SunTour (just a kid's impression from looking at the bike while riding it) I did a little research on SunTour and "SR", which was the Sakae Ringyo bikes, right? There is some sort of relationship between the two companies, although I have not figured it all out yet.
Answers to your questions are: 52 teeth on the front cog, and 34 on the rear.
Answers to your questions are: 52 teeth on the front cog, and 34 on the rear.
12-10-07, 03:08 PM
#40
Member
Thread Starter
Ricohman & Bob Barker: Since I grew up in a small town in northcentral Montana, a Canadian bicycle would easily be a possibility. The time frame fits too, however, I don't recall the Iverson brand name.
Last edited by thea_vc; 12-10-07 at 03:17 PM.
12-10-07, 03:37 PM
#41
Member
Thread Starter
Bigbossman: If looking at the bottom bracket cup means taking anything apart, I'm not sure I can do that. Someone else asked me if the width of the bottom bracket was 68mm or 70mm too, but I am not sure where to take the measurements.
12-10-07, 04:32 PM
#42
Elitest Murray Owner
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,657
Bikes: 1972 Columbia Tourist Expert III, Columbia Roadster
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
I wonder if maybe, there are some photos from your birthday when you got it, that you might be able to look at.
12-10-07, 04:33 PM
#43
Member
Thread Starter
Mos6502: I have been looking through all my pictures to find it. So far, no luck, but I'm going to look at my mom's when I go to Montana for Christmas. Great idea!
12-10-07, 04:46 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
And these bikes had a mix of shimano and suntour components. In fact my old Iverson 3spd has a shimano rear hub and other japanese components.
12-10-07, 04:52 PM
#45
Lanky Lass
Where were you from in Montana?
East Hill
__________________
___________________________________________________
TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
___________________________________________________
TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
12-10-07, 04:58 PM
#46
Member
Thread Starter
East Hill: I grew up along the Hi-line (Hwy 2) in a very small town called Chinook. Now live just north of Denver, Colorado.
Last edited by thea_vc; 12-10-07 at 05:03 PM.
12-10-07, 05:08 PM
#47
Dolce far niente
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 10,704
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
14 Posts
The fixed cup is usually marked on its' face, but it might be obscured behind the drive side crank (chain rings). If you look carefully and at an angle, you might be able to read it. If it is marked "35xp1", it is French. If you cannot read it that way, you'll need to remove the crankarm/chainrings to get a good look. That requires a crank removal tool, so it might not be in your power to do so.
Either measuring the shell or reading the BB mark will reveal more clues as to the bikes origin.
__________________
"Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."
S. J. Perelman
"Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."
S. J. Perelman
Last edited by bigbossman; 12-10-07 at 05:16 PM.
12-11-07, 02:39 PM
#48
Member
Thread Starter
John E & Bigbossman:
Ok, it looks as though I will need the special tool in order to get to the BB shell, and the measurement of it from end to end is 7 cm.
Ok, it looks as though I will need the special tool in order to get to the BB shell, and the measurement of it from end to end is 7 cm.
Last edited by thea_vc; 12-11-07 at 03:15 PM.
12-11-07, 04:06 PM
#49
Dolce far niente
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 10,704
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
14 Posts
OK - 7cm = 70mm, so it looks like the BB is Italian threaded. Probably not a Japanese bike, then.
__________________
"Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."
S. J. Perelman
"Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."
S. J. Perelman