Hi guys, joined recently after lurking around Clydes ('cos I'm 6'2" and about 225 lbs) and commuting (because that's what I'm hoping to start doing!). I seem to have been lured into C&V by East Hill though, so how could I not take a look...

Been looking at new bikes to get away from that jumping in the car every morning thing, but I have to say I'm tempted to try to do something with my old and unreliable Dawes...

First thing you should do is raise the saddle.

Welcome to C&V.

OK, so what's unreliable?

Expanding on the somewhat laconic response by hxzero above, there are several theories about correct seat height and frame size, but the method for seat height that I think works best is from the late, great Sheldon Brown. Everytime you go out for a ride, raise the seat by 1/4" or 1/2 cm. Do this until you feel uncomfortable, or you feel that your hips are rocking when you're pedaling along (or someone stops you and says that your hips are rocking!). Then go back to the penultimate height. With a little getting used to (esp. if you have been riding with seat too low for a long time) this is guaranteed to feel more natural, and will be most efficient.

If that seat height is correct for you, then you should look for a smaller frame. Rule of thumb is that with the right size frame, set up with the right seat height, you should have about the width of your fist in seatpost exposed (more or less).

If your seatpost is too long, then chances are that your top tube is too long too, unless your build is way different than the norms (in terms of proportion of torso height to leg length).

At 6'-2" you may fit a frame like your Dawes, but that's a seriously large frame, I have to say.

First thing he should do is take off that chain and save some of the paint on the top tube!!

Hi HF2300,

Glad to see you here . Now, why is the Dawes unreliable?

East Hill

As long as the frame is straight and the right size, everything else can be repaired.

Thanks, and thanks to all for the welcome, tips and comments.

If I'm honest, I'm the reason the Dawes is unreliable. I picked it up for £20 years ago, but haven't really been at all serious about cycling (till now, hopefully), so I haven't put the time into it.

As a result, I haven't done the maintenance / adjustment / replacement the drivetrain needs, so it's prone to dropping the chain, and it really shouldn't be wearing those 15+ year old tyres, which are pretty perished and cracked. No punctures yet, but every time I do come to it the tyres are flat, so I don't get round to using it.

(And the moral of the story is...)

The seat position is a bit misleading; the seat post clamp's actually loose in that photo. What feels right relative to the pedals is more like this:



Charles Wahl has hit the nail on the head though; it's a monster frame (62 cm centre to centre), I think perhaps rather too big for me. In many ways, I've just posted the photo out of interest, as starting again with something slightly smaller may be the way to go.

Out of interest again, is it practical to fit modern components (such as indexed gears, shifters on the bars) on an older bike like this - and is it sacrilege to suggest that in here?!

Well, I'd say that looks a lot better. You might prefer something with a bit more standover, but the frame looks like it should fit, based on the seat height anyway.

Lots of C&Vers update their old frames with newer equipment, and it doesn't make them ashamed to show their faces. There's no use making yourself miserable for correctness' sake -- it's a big tent here. That saddle looks like it might be a mite uncomfortable, for starters. If you're having trouble with tires, then get some reasonably-priced ones with kevlar belts, like Panaracer Pasela TourGuards. If you put a pair on that's a size wider than what you have, the ride will be a bit more plush.

But it's amazing what cleaning up the components and getting them properly adjusted will do for riding pleasure, and it costs next to nothing.

That looks like the right amount of seatpost. It fits you fine, even if it is a very big frame.

I'm not sure about the saddle - it actually feels more immediately comfortable than the ones on the modern bikes I've tried (Specialized Sirrus, Trek 7.5FX); but I suppose what's comfortable on a jaunt down the road may not be on a ride of any seriousness. It's pretty battered though.

Charles, you've hit the nail on the head again with the standover. I'm slightly out of proportion (longer torso, shorter but not very short legs). On a rough assessment the pedals are somewhere handy with that seat height, but the standover is... tight - I'm pretty much resting on the top bar. I know it's not a direct comparison, but the Sirrus I tried was L (58 cm?) and that felt better, though with much more seat post showing.

Reach to the top of the bars feels right but to the hoods and drops feels too far, but that may just be my preference. Maybe I'm more of a flat bar sort of person; I don't like being low in the drops, but I find on the tops the bars feel too narrow.

A shorter-reach stem might help.

And with a Nitto Technomic stem (not the deluxe, which is shorter in allowable height) you can get the bars higher too. I am 5'-10", with long legs, short torso, and ride a somewhat-too-short 57 cm frame. I put on a Technomic, but wanted the bars so high (like level with the seat) that it looked goofy. Then I came across a Nitto Dirtdrop, which is more beautifully finished (satin anodized), and is upward-sloping rather than the standard "backwards 7" shape. That looks much better, and it's also a tall stem. Only problem is that it comes in only one extension, about 80 mm; but that suits me fine.

my suggestion is to check out Moustache bars -- actually, I so far prefer flipped North Road bars for the same type of riding position, which are cheaper and more readily available. (see the recent thread here on moustache bars).

Combined with a very short-reach stem, you get a range of positions from upright to semi-upright, but not as low as drops.

If you insist on going indexed, you can mount up STIs ("aero" integrated brake levers and shifters) on just about any kind of bar. There are a LOT of alternative bar shapes out there now (see www.velo-orange.com and https://www.somafab.com/).

STIs are much, much more comfortable (I think) than old-school drop-bar levers for riding on the hoods.

You might do just fine with a shorter reach stem (a nitto technomic or a dirtdrop if you want to get the bars higher), your same bars, and a set of STIs. Changes like these (or even any one of them) can have a pretty radical effect on the comfort and enjoyability of the ride.

Welcome to C&V, where we'll chat--not chew (usually)--your ear off.

Eric

Thanks for all the comments guys, and thanks for the welcome and thoughtful discussion with a newbie. Learning lots just from following the links and looking up the suggestions...

I like the North Road bars, and the Dirtdrop stem. I never did get on with non-indexed downtube levers (my own incompetence, not the machinery), and these new (to me) indexed shifters are a revelation, so that's STIs or similar as well...

East Hill said this forum was - what was it... '...the most seductive here...' Hmmm...

I'm so tempted to start playing, to try some of these suggestions. Trouble is, I wonder if I'm going to end up really quite a lot of money trying to make the bike something it isn't, and there's that nagging feeling that the frame's still an inch or two too big, despite your reassurances.

Also I can't help feeling the last thing I need is yet another project!

I think I might find myself adjusting the gears and brakes, sticking a new set of tyres on and giving it a go this weekend, though...

BTW, why are they called North Road bars?

Why not go take a test ride on a shorter bike (or borrow one)?

Indexed shifting might require a new freewheel, or new hub with freehub. And those STI brifters are molto caro, too.

I've just tried a handful of new bikes at a couple of LBSs; hybrids, so perhaps not a direct comparison, and just rides round the block. 57 cm Specialized Sirrus felt about right, as did 58 cm Globe. Kona Dew felt a bit short (lengthways) and as though I was pitched forward a bit too much, but they only had a 56 cm frame to try. Trek 7.5 FX and 7500 felt about right but stupidly I've forgotten what size frames they were; 20" I think.

Looking up the geometries, though, these all seem to have about the same top tube length as the Dawes. I'll have to double check it - and perhaps sneak back to the LBS on Saturday and try a full on drop bar road bike...




From what I've read I think it would, and again you hit the nail on the head - £££ on a £20 bike I'm not wedded to is probably not what I had in mind, despite all you evil people dazzling me with your shiny new moustache bars and beautifully machined stems!

I think the plan of action is down the LBS on Saturday to pick up a basic set of tyres, adjust the gears and brakes and ride the Dawes for a week or two pretty much as it is to see if it tells me anything more; then perhaps a new bike for the commute.

Then since I seem to be doomed to circle C&V forever I might just keep an eye on the classifieds to see if something interesting turns up...

Well, thanks in no small part to encouragement received here, George Dawes got a bit of spanner work over the weekend, and made it to work and back with me today - and not in the back of the car either!

I went for a couple more test rides this weekend and thanked one particular LBS who've been helpful by crossing their palms with silver for two puncture resistant Panaracers and new tubes - Cross Towns, not Paselas, but reasonably priced - and what they had in stock!

Got the derailleur adjusted, new brake blocks on the front, aligned the wheels, set the brakes up, and it's a lot better now. By no means perfect, but it'll do for the moment.

I found with the tyres, though, that - having been seated correctly - they both went out of round after a test ride. I hadn't realised (until I stripped them) these wheels don't have a recess in the rim for the bead to sit in. I put the pressure up to 100 psi which is getting on for maximum on these tyres, and I think they must be pushing out with the pressure where they have least grip on the rim - does that sound right? Anyway, I dropped the pressure to 80 and they seem OK.

Charles, you were right about the saddle ... or maybe that's my inexperienced rear! I also found I'm groping around for the gears too much; they feel too far away, and I'm either missing gears or jumping several, and wobbling around too much while I'm doing so at slow speed. And the bars still feel too narrow - I feel very wobbly, even with some decent speed on. Maybe a play with seat and stem position tonight...

Downtube shifters are an acquired taste; you'll get used to them (and use them with more alacrity), but you might not ever completely like them. Options are bar-end shifters, or thumb shifters for friction derailers. for indexed there are also the brifters, but we've covered that briefly.

Saddles are, even more than shifters, by far the most personal of bicycle components. I find Brooks leather saddles comfortable, from the first ride; that's not the common opinion. Good ones tend to be expensive, whether old-style like the Brooks, or one of the technologically advanced designs. You'll find that some people will disagree, being completely happy with a bargain saddle that just happens to suit their derrière to a T.

Keep riding, and don't change too much at one time.

I will. Doomed now - cruising eBay for old bikes lastnight...