SCIENCE is done through an easy process, it starts first as a hypothesis (in this case, does tying spokes increase performance).
-then trough experimentation that can be recreated in the same environment for the same duration of time (tying the spokes on YOUR BIKE and riding in a particular manner in a particular place. example: daily commute)
-then through observation (comparing the effects of tied vs non tied on the same commute over the course of a year each)
-Lastly coming to conclusions based on said observations.


FAITH is much more simpler for example "this guy Brant says this and he presents it well so I will believe its true". That is what you have done in essence, which is fine I just want to clarify who is coming to the more scientific conclusion and whose conclusions are based more on faith.


BTW You NEVER GLUE SPOKE NIPPLES. EVER. That will keep you from being able to true your rims. you can glue spokes to the hub but not the spokes to the nipples. and yes now we have stronger rims, hubs and spokes but they are costly and some may not be able to afford them. or simply feel they should not let a good set of wheels go to waste simply because the riders is heavy/strong/rides like a madman.

Thats very true. We've come far from simple box section rims and straight gauge spokes.

Only sis loops? That looks sharp!

There are seven!

Thanks for the nice words. I'll try to find a pic of some cleaned ties on black spokes-now that's sharp!

It seems to me that this would not be real easy to test. You'd need to build up a number of pairs of identical rims and then run them with measured lateral loads or overloaded vertically until they failed. Just doing one or two rims wouldn't tell you much. Comparing Wheel A built up by Bob to Wheel B built up and tied and soldered by Jim wouldn't tell you anything at all (about the tying, that is, might still show which wheel was superior, but wouldn't show why).

I wonder, too, if maybe improvements in wheelbuilding, spoke strength, and available rims haven't made this less necessary. I know over in the Clydesdale forum, you'll hear different recommendations for wheels, but tying and soldering is never part of the recommendation.

[QUOTE]SCIENCE is done through an easy process, it starts first as a hypothesis (in this case, does tying spokes increase performance).
-then trough experimentation that can be recreated in the same environment for the same duration of time (tying the spokes on YOUR BIKE and riding in a particular manner in a particular place. example: daily commute)
-then through observation (comparing the effects of tied vs non tied on the same commute over the course of a year each)
-Lastly coming to conclusions based on said observations.
[quote]

Like I said I agree to disagree. No use flogging a dead horse. Really. You guys like them. Great! I said I like the look. I just don't necessarily believe claims of great utility. But it's a wide world with lots of view points. Please have your own. I like mine.

Hmm, that's one take on it. Ok. So on the other hand I should say "This guy EatMyA** says it's true so I believe him." Nah, come on. In the complete absence of any supporting data for your view point all we have is Jobst Brandt's much better tested and presented information. It might be flawed. Run a real test, prove him wrong. Now THAT is science.

Umm, yeah I know that. Read my post again. I was saying that's a silly thing to do and unnecessary with properly built wheels.

Karl