This is mine and it is stamped [11]. What does that tell our expert panel?

What does it tell us? The Mystery Guest - i.e., the cutoff between the fluted variants and the non-fluted variants is 1985. I notice that your '85 has engraved logos, while Bob mentions his are etched/printed.

Looks like Jon was right, and so is Schmidt. Question is...was NR around in '85?

-Kurt

FWIW, according to bulgier.net, Pinarello was still using an NR groupset on the Treviso in 1985.
Jeff

Had me fooled there. I saw your question about removing the old decals in another post, my frame actually did have 5 crusty decals clinging to life. I used a basic hair dryer and a thin guitar pick, then I removed the extra gunk with some goo gone. Worked like a charm! Did you make a decision about your headset? I have a gran sport headset that I was figuring I would probably use, bummer about your fork, nothing that can't be fixed though.

-Matt

Well, it was pretty easy to discover that the Nuovo Record group was in the '85 catalog. Since this discussion centers around arcana and terminology, I'll point out that technically, there were no "Nuovo Record" chainrings - they were "Record," just as the crankarms were. It seems pretty clear that both fluted Record arms and non-fluted arms were produced and sold simultaneously for at least a short period. (I would caution against assigning a "cutoff" between fluted and non-fluted cranks, as it's certainly possible, especially knowing Campagnolo, that they were both shipped with SR groups concurrently for a period of time). By '85, Campagnolo was probably already beginning to phase out NR to clear a market niche for its new mid-line gruppos, so just how much they were producing is an open question. As Frank Berto point out in "Dancing Chain," NR groups remained in the supply chain for years, and were appearing on new bikes as late as 1988. So the question remains as to whether they may have still been producing and shipping a small number of Nuovo Record groups and chainsets in 1986-87, and which crank arms they were including in those sets. That's a question that is likely to remain unresolved until someone opens a NOS box containing just such an item. Nevertheless, it has been common to refer to the unfluted cranks as "Super Record," which makes sense. They were clearly included in at least some SR groups and chainsets sold circa 1985-6, while not included with NR groups and Record chainsets. Also, the absence of flutes corresponds to the introduction of the non-fluted SR seatpost introduced around the same time, as pointed out in Chuck's timeline. Lastly, I'll point out that there is still some lingering disagreement in the vintage bike community as to the interpretation of the 11-squared code.

We need a time machine and an Italian translator to solve this. I will spend some time soon updating information on VeloBase.com for the Nuovo Record / Record / Super Record parts and groups to try to reflect what information we have been able to collect here. One on an never growing list of TODO's for the site. But, without something to do on it, I'd probably lose interest right? It's the mysteries and the discoveries that are the most fun.

I just came across a picture I took of my last year made (1986) Super Record Crank which shows the laser etched logo significantly better. I thought I'd post it and send it to Jon at VeloBase.

at the expense of being called an over attentive weenie, I searched the pile'o'catalogs this morning for the actual differences...looks like the rear derailleur and the delta brakes are the biggest differences. May be, depending on your interpretation of the ad copy, that the internals on the pedals differ from the C-Record pedals. May be that the headset is unique (they stressed the SELFORM capabilities of the headset, which I have always thought was a Dura Ace buzzword). Campy tried to make out that the cranks were unique; they look just like Chorus with Record one-bolt extractors, to me.

Back on topic, the fluteless arms first show, I think, with the 50th group in 1983. They had some meaningless garbledegoop scratched on the outside, and some other little meaningless blingies, otherwise they are just like the later super record cranks. I have read, and I dunno where, that Campy changed the design of the spiders with this last release of the arms, to alleviate the stress fracture problem. These things don't show up in any of the catalogs that I have, btw.

alwys yrs in overly-detailed mnutea...

okay. I am an over-attentive weenie. I just spent five minutes comparing the fluted and the non-fluted, and have just about convinced myself that the stress riser point where the spider arm joins the crank arm has been moved outward, toward the pedal hole, on the fluteless crank. Does someone have both types so that they can confirm that?

If, in fact, this is the case then these fluteless cranks would certainly be the ones to have, with your ultimate SR setup.

I like over-attentive weenies when they unearth speculations like these. Very interesting! I have both cranks hanging on the peg board, but they are currently 1200 miles distant. I'm sure someone else will beat me to the examination.

Jan

AFAIK, there was indeed a change in the non-fluted cranks to prevent the cracking. So my guess is they added more material. My question is: is the machining as sharp or did they round it off like we all do with our files?

Gran Sport was a racing group when it came out. My lower-than-San Remo Falcon (straight 531 tubes forks stays) bought new in 1968 I think, had the front and rear derailleurs. The RD had two wheels on the cage. I think I saw a picture once of a one-wheel RD made of cast metal like a Gran Sport. I can't say when it went out of new production. It was definitely represented to me as better than Valentino.

Hello,

I came accross this thread scouting for info... I'm after an '85 Victory Corsa group for a nice Olmo frame I'm building up. Any leads on where to find one and how much would I be looking at paying for the entire group? I have some nice Super Record Delta callipers in good nick that could act as leverage...

Cheers

Greg

Are you saying that you think Victory was top of the line, Kurt? Victory was a couple steps below C-Record. Not that the parts look it. My Guerciotti/Alen is all Victory - beautiful stuff!

edit: ooohhhh....never mind. Missed the point. Carry on.....

Technically, maybe: but I'd suggest you'd have a hard time putting the 151 "Record" rings on the 144 "Nuovo Record" crank arms and vice versa!

Well, it took better than a year or two, but both of the above photos of the engraved and etched campagnolo cranksets are now on VeloBase.