Can some one explain the relative pecking order for Campy components such as derailleurs, hubs, seatposts? Is Nuovo Record better than Super Record (etc.) or did one supersede the other? I'm mostly interested in 70's components but I am also curious about modern components. I'm building up a 72 Paramount and was wondering what was common for them.

I can't remeber where I found out the pecking order but I think that I looked to bikepedia for the info to determine where mine fell... good luck with that.

The hierachy changed over the years. In from the late 70's with the intro of Super Record till intro of C-Record it went:

Super Record
Nuovo Record
Gran Sport
etc.

With the intro of Corsa-Record, it essentually took the top rank from Super Record, and about the same time Nuovo Record was discontinued. During the C-Record era there were additional groups introduced, such as Chorus, CdA, and others as the 90's approached and started. My site, VeloBase.com, has a reasonablely complete listing of groups from Campagnolo through the years up till the mid 90's.

I'm pretty sure Super Record didn't come in until a couple years later.

Nuovo Tipo and Grand Sport were still going in '72. For a Paramount, you'd likely want Nuovo Record with Record for the parts which didn't have specific Nuovo Record designation (brakes, hubs, headset, etc).

Approximate hierarchy of road RD groups, pre-1990's, dates given to show cutoff points. I've omitted groups that I do not know entirely as to where they fit. Some of these are in the same general group quality, but are later replacements for previous groups in the same quality range.

Correct me if I am wrong on some of the end dates of these groups - I'm not entirely sure about SR or NR.

Top-end:
C-Record (1984-1990)
Super Record (1976-1985)
Nuovo Record (1967-1985)
Record (1965-197?)
Gran Sport (1951-1973)
----------------------
Mid-range:
Victory/Victory S3 (1985-1988/9?)
Nuovo Gran Sport (1974-1985)
----------------------
Low-end:
Triomphe/Triomphe S3 (1985-1988/9?)
990 (1980-1985?)
980 (1980-1985)

And if I may add my biased opinion, the Victory RD's are my favorite, followed by second-generation SR. Gran Sport, 990 and 980 do not have any specific brakesets. Record and Nuovo Record share the same brakeset and crankset (early cranksets 151bcd, later 144bcd). Nuovo Gran Sport shares RD physical geometry (not appearance) with Nuovo Record, 990 shares geometry w/Triomphe, Victory shares geometry with SR and C-Record with exception to top pivots.

-Kurt

Super Record trumped Nuovo Record (SR - NR), though SR wasn't available as an option for some components. So there would be SR cranksets and NR cranksets, but where there was no SR - NP options, the component in question would be called, simply, 'Record.'

The SR components usually were lighter than the NR components for the same task. For instance my SR crankset has more area cut out of it than does the NR equivalent. So most racers would want SR where it could be an option. This continued into the early 1980's as I recall, then I stopped paying attention when all hell broke loose and new gruppo names were launched faster than cockroaches could invade an apartment building.

There were no Super or Nouvo record cranks, just Record cranks with Nouvo or Super Record rings.

I stand corrected. I have the SR rings then. See? It was confusing even then. Now....Arrrgggh!

Where does that put the second-generation crankarms without the flutes on the arms?

-Kurt

I'll second the Nuovo Record vote for a 72 Paramount.

I've never seen them, therefore they don't exist.

Now you've seen one, therefore, we must hear your opinion :



-Kurt

I think he should remove the stickers from those Sun rims.

I should have stayed out of this thread. My knowlege of Campagnolo components is weak. I will say that I like the way the crank looks without the flutes.

I couldn't see the picture earlier. I was at work and the block links to picture sites.

Agreed - the redesign does bring the old design into the 1980's quite nicely.

-Kurt

Just to further challenge our expert panel: can script vs block lettering and world vs shield logo be used to pinpoint group or vintage?

have at it, jan

Depends on what component you are referring to with the former (and I can't think of any cases off the top of my head that would fit the bill), though I believe there was a cutoff date for the World logo vs. the shield logo on the gum hoods - I'm just not sufficently up on the latter to know for sure.

Velobase is your friend though...

-Kurt

Kurt,
Good notes. I never thought of Gran Sport as High-End. Wouldn't they be closer to mid or maybe even lower end?

Gran Sport was the top when it was first introduced - it was Campagnolo's first parallelogram derailer, if I recall right (replaced the Paris-Roubaix, for that matter).

Became the second-tier model by the Record in '65. I do wonder just how many they sold into the '70s though - I've yet to see one mounted on any machine past the mid '60s.

I never thought highly of the subsequent group of the original's namesake (Nuovo Gran Sport, that is) however, for its front and rear derailers always appeared absolutely cheap to me - the plating on the front was abysmal, and the rear was the cheapest copy that one could ever make of the NR geometry - even the Gian Robert knockoffs look good in comparison to the zinc-plated hex bolts and stamped pulley cage. Yech! Great parts mines for NR and SR derailers though.

Nevertheless, the rest of the Nuovo Gran Sport group was finished just as nicely as NR or SR (even if the lettering on the calipers and levers aren't as spiffy), and one must not forget the high-flange Nuovo Tipo hubs either.

I'd knock it down a bit in the lineup if it were my own personal preference, but that wasn't what I had in mind.

For the record though, the following is my own idea of how they stack up against each other - biased and completely subjective:

Victory/Victory S3
Super Record
C-Record (It would rate higher if those dropout stops weren't so prone to cracking)
Gran Sport
Record
Nuovo Record (I do not, and will never care for NR parallelogram angle or cage geometry, or any other derailer that shares it. Shifting into the small cog when on the big chainring is inevitably sloppy no matter what the adjustment)
Nuovo Gran Sport
990
Triomphe/Triomphe S3
980

-Kurt

Any guesses? There might be a quizz...

As to what it is? NR or SR crankset with SR rings. Looks like a post-CSPC NR (or SR - let's see that pivot arm) FD too.

-Kurt

A 72 Paramount would have been all Nuovo Record - the very top components of the day.

Super Record was introduced in Campagnolo Catalogue #17, dated 1974. The earliest version of the Super Record designated cranksets were specified with Titanium axles. That turned out to be a disaster (the axles broke), and soon they were again fitted with the simple Nuovo Record steel axles. As Cudak888 mentioned, apart from this (now highly collectible) fluke, the only difference in the complete crankset assemblies were the chainrings.

The early Super Record group as a whole was a bit lighter because of the general use of titanium parts... pedal axles, rear derailleur pivot bolts, hub axles...

Where does Croc D'une (sp?) fall?

You have me there. If there was one thing that Campagnolo shaped up about in the late '80s and early '90s, it was the finish of componentry. Most of the later groups, from the cheap stuff up had excellent finishes, no matter what their order in the hierarchy. Nothing like Nuovo Gran Sport, or for that matter, Valentino, Velox, etc.

-Kurt

The FD on mine is a Record (NR) - as the people at Harris Cyclery* called it. They called the crankset Super Record - SR - and the pedals you can see a corner of are NR.

* I used to live close to Harris.

Croce D'Aune -- Late 80s -- here's a site with some pictures (though mid-late 80s is thought to be the "classic era").
https://campybike.com/ClassicEra.htm

Campagnolo got confused in the mid-80s, making too many groups, with variants even. Stuff that lasted a year or two, obviously running scared from Shimano, and to a lesser degree, SunTour.

[QUOTE=cudak888;7726461]Now you've seen one, therefore, we must hear your opinion :

/QUOTE]

I think Campy made that crank for about 5 minutes. What's the date? I'd guess '85 or '86.