This headset is on my Hawthorne (montgomery wards) branded fuji (yes I know I'm lucky). What the F&*K is it and how would I replace it? My issue was that when I took off the upper lock rings and adjuster the cup also came off of the base...This can't be a good sign. You can sort of see this in this picture that whole cup that is under the non chrome steal adjuster comes off it's base! Any ideas? I don't necissarily want to buy a new headset I'd rather just replace the balls and re-grease.

what it is, is wrongly assembled, looks to me... You have some pieces of a couple of headsets, and someone who got 'em all to work together in a new way.

If I'm right, the sure cure is to pop the 10$ to get a new one in there.

Sorry.

What luker said. You can get a replacement for cheap.

Here's a picture of the bottom, this also looks weird to me the same sort of external cup crap. I've talked to my dad the original owner and he says he can't remember ever doing anything of the sort, but it was a long time ago (45 years) !!! I don't really care about replacing it, I've just had bad luck trying to replace headsets (I always get screwed on the size). Given that this is a 60's fuji, I'd probably be dealing with JIS, or given that it was a fuji made for the american market I'd probably need a ___ size? I'm totally cool with replacing the headset (It's actually not that hard). I know this may need to go in the mechanics forum.

Wait, your telling me someone actually too 2 headsets, slammed the "new one" probably a smaller American size, in the old one probably the slightly bigger JIS size (?) because (?) I totally sort of see that, that is fubar!!!!! This beast is coming out. This is supper freaking funny! So no one in the history of headsets ever made one that looked like two slammed into each other . I'm going to have a talk with my dad and beat him silly (I love the guy and it's the holidays but Jesus H.). The funny thing is if you knew my dad you would totally believe that he would do something like this. This is probably why he quit riding it in the first place! Let assume that we can tell anything from measuring the headsets themselves, and instead I need to measure the diameters of the headset tube, what numbers should I be looking for!

HI, my 2 cents... yes, that thing looks like having parts from 2 or 3 different headsets.

Take the headset out completely, and as you said measure the internal diameter of the head tube.. Hope you have a nice METRIC CALIPER, u can do it in inches but it will be harder to guess the metric size, in the unit conversion some decimals will be lost and u might end getting a headset that might fit lose or wont fit in the head tube.

Sheldon brown has a sticky with headsets. I dont know how old that bike is, and if it is too old u even have the chance to have nice french sized headtube and fork (my opinion). Best case scennario, u are looking for 30 mm or 30.2 mm internal head tube diameter. It could be less too.

Get the metric caliper 1st.

An steel headset can be like 20 bucks maybe.

Good luck

Got a metric caliper, so when I get around to it I'll check into it more. This is one of the funniest things I've ever encountered. Thanks

Looks like the fork steerer will be too long when you put a (1) proper headset in. Just curious what makes you think that is a Fuji built bike?

I nominate this for C&V thread of the year.

I posted an earlier thread about that, but there are two things :

1) the most obvious is the crank and hubs and steam bolt all say fuji. (don't have apick of the stem bolt but it's pretty fabulous... Everything is rusted to hell but I'm actually going to leave most things as is (the frame is not even getting clearcoat) I built a new wheelset (I'm keeping the old wheels around for ever just incase I need to somehow keep it together for historic value), I replaced the handle bars (again keeping them) and I'm going to leave the original cottered crank on there (I won't ride it that much, but it's the coolest part). The seat is also gone (again keeping).

here's my page dedicated to this bike... For proof of the fuji parts you can see the crank and the hub

https://briandrwecki.com/fuji.aspx



2) I googled around and found on wikipedia that they actually did sell to Montgomery Wards
In the history line it clearly states that they built bikes for sears and MW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_Advanced_Sports

3) I didn't know that fuji even did this until I was cleaning it up and noticed that the crank was a Fuji crank and started to do some research...

There's no other explanation for why so much crap is fuji on a bike from the early 60s (my dad's child hood). EVEN THE SEAT POST BOLT (AMAZING).

really a pretty cool bike, all things considered. And I'd be willing to believe that it is a Fuji...we might be able to get a better-documented answer if you provide a serial number. There are people here who have compiled some Japanese serial number statistics.

Back to the headset. The underlying problem is that the fork isn't original. The fork was hacked into the frame, cleverly, by using parts of two headsets...thus mitigating the need to hacksaw off the extra fork length of the replacement fork. Essentially, pieces of a second headset were used to space out the extra long steerer. All conjecture on my part, but I'm right, of course.

I think that you should look under the top tube and under the down tube, where they meet the head tube for signs of buckling...may not be an issue, may be. The fork was replaced for a reason...

And, while we are on the subject of the fork, what purpose does that bolt between the fork crown plates serve?

Too lazy to go look at the serial number today, I'm grading finals and need a beer really badly!

1) buckling, what do you mean?
2) My dad is really proud of an electric horn that he saved from the bike, I bet it has something to do with that...

Ok, so disassembly complete. What a work out. anyways, so bear with me:

1) the caliper reads that the inside diameter of the top and bottom head tube is 30mm.

2) the headtube itself is 4 5/8 inches tall (don't have a caliper that big sorry)

3) the fork is 6.5 inches tall from the top of the bottom race.

4) the top 1.5 inches is threaded.

5) the top and down tube are connected to the head tube with a very small pin hole (too small to put a finger through), they don't look like they are buckled. but you can't really get a finger in there to tell for sure.

6) I'll probably have to get the race removed given that there's no protruding part of it , the fork tube that is above the race is 25.3 mm all the way up.


7) the serial number is f5i0 139


I have an old 80s fuji fork lying around and it's totally not even big enough to stick out of the headtube.

So, now I have to figure out what to do? What are my options? Obviously new headset. But can I still use this fork? How? I don't know anything about headset spacers (in fact I just realized they existed today) can I use them?

Thanks a billion for helping guys.

You can take the frame, fork and all to the LBS, have them measure twice, cut once, and add threading as necessary.

If you were a fair bike shop, what would you charge for that? Cutting and then the threading? I also have an even bigger issue, I'm 99% certain that the bottom fork is of the American, not Japanese standard. It's not possible to mix headsets is it?

I'm going out on a limb here: are you sure that fork is original to the bike? Perhaps the original was trashed, and in order to graft on a replacement with a longer steerer tube, someone cobbled the headset rather than cut down the steerer.

I've never had that done. I've had alignments done for $20.00 and chase/face also for $20.00. I'd call around and ask what they would charge. If they're going to do that for you, they'll also need to work out the right thing to do with the headset, since knowing stack height is part of the deal. I've had an old headset removed for free, but that's probably because I haunt the LBS. That shouldn't cost extra I wouldn't think if they're doing the other work for you at the same time. It might add 5-10 minutes to the job if they take their sweet time.

buckling would be wrinkling of the tubing. If you mashed the fork backwards suddenly, the impact force could cause the bottom of the head tube to move backwards and/or upwards. That would cause the top tube and the seat tube of the bike to get a little squashed. It is usually not a very big deal, but if it is heavily bent, it could cause some bike handling problems, and in extreme cases it could be dangerous.

another probably outcome of a heavy frontal crash is that the fork is destroyed, and acts as a fuse to absorb all of the impact energy, leaving the frame pretty much okeydokey. The more expensive the bike, the more likely that a frontal impact will damage the frame. The cheaper the bike, the more likely that the fork will fail.

Expensive bikes have light tubing and stiff forks...cheaper bikes, not so much.

Yeah, I thought we all came to that conclusion. My dad swears it's original, but it can't be no way based on the fact that the headtube are jls and the fork race is ISO . Where would I go to buy a steal fork? Is that a local thing or can I find stuff on the internet. I'd actually like a new fork anyway if it's less than 50 bucks if it's more, then I get angry and bitter!

B

The critical factor is getting the sizing correct. For this reason, I suggest getting the headset situation resolved first (or at least narrow it down to one or two options so you'll know the stack height, which you can add the the head tube size to determine the proper steerer length). That way you'll know the needed size and threading before you start searching for a fork. $50.00 seems a reasonable limit for this - although, it might be easier to find a donor bike with a fork that's intact and the proper size

If you google or look at other past posts on this site recently (last two weeks) there was a posting with another internet site selling chrome forks for 27" bikes for the under $15 area. Roger

Spacers are washers of varying thickness that go, usually, between the adjustable top cup and the lock nut (the very top). There's an upper limit to the number of washers that you should use - they screw up the headset adjustment, but you have maybe a quarter of an inch of adjustment by adding and removing the spacers. It is convenient, if you have a groove milled into the steerer (the threaded part of the fork), to get headset washers with little tabs that fit into that groove. that will help keep the locknut from unthreading...