I just picked up a "Made in England" Raleigh Grand Prix, 23-1/2".

The frame is in descent shape and I plan on restoring the bike, i.e. repacking all of the bearings, aligning the frame and fork and re-building the wheels using ss spokes and possibly alloy rims.

I'm curious about the frame. Does anyone know the specifications/characteristics of the 2030 tubing that was used for the frame and forks, such as, seamed or seamless, wall thickness, strength vs. weight, etc.?

Was the tubing used exclusively by Raleigh or was it available to other manufacturers?

Any information about the manufacturing process, lugwork, etc. would also be helpful.

Seamed mild steel. Heavy walled compared to racing tubing, but ok, not water-pipe. It was manufactured to become bike frames. No where near as strong as say Reynolds, but more than adequate. Stamped lugs made by, or for Raleigh also mild welded steel.

Without performing destructive measurement , the only 2030 tube that you''ll get a wall thickness measurement for is the seat tube. Most of the 2030 bicycles used 25.4mm posts, if I recall correctly, so you're looking at about 1.5 mm wall thickness, versus 0.8 - 0.9mm for a CrMo or MnMo, plain gauge seat tube from the likes of Columbus, Reynolds or Tange.

Most other manufactuers used similar steels in their entry level frames, though I believe that only Raleigh used the 2030 designation.

Schwinn used 1010 on the very bottom bikes, then 1020 for bikes up a step from there. My 1981 Giant built Schwinn Traveler is 1020. Might have just been the difference between imported and US built bikes? I don't know.

Then they jumped to the 4130 cromoly or similar for the next step up.

Raleigh frames with 2030 steel are well made and were designed for decades of riding... the tubing is not as light as a butted chromoly but these are recreational, utility, and sport level frames and not full on racers.

The Grand Prix is a nice riding bicycle and with nicer alloy bits is going to curb out at around 26 pounds...it is still as strong a frame as anyone could ever want.

Thanks for your helpful responses.

You mention "stamped lugs".

Comparing the lugs of the Grand Prix to those of a Raleigh Record of the same vintage, I noticed that the Record's lugs appear to be two halves welded together, the Grand Prix has no visible welds on the lugs.

Is it possible to stamp a lug out of one piece of metal?

almost all Raleighs can be assumed to have stamped lugs. The more expensive ones were cleaned up. There is a weld down the centerline of the lug.

I think some of the Japanese one piece head tube/lugs may have been made from tubing, but that's another story.

Not mild steel, but generic "high carbon" (aka "high tensile") steel, which may or may not be seamed tubing.

Yes. It starts as a flat sheet, out of which is stamped the lug shape. It is then rolled and welded, and sometimes some rudimentary machining is done.

There's nothing wrong with stamped lugs; some custom builders prefer them because they are easier to rework than cast lugs. FWIW, cast lugs were introduced in bicycles as a labor saving invention, not because they had superior physical properties compared to stamped lugs. Cast lugs do have tighter and more consistent dimensions than stamped lugs which makes them more amenable to automation and requiring less clean-up, but a stamped lug in the hands of a competent builder is every bit as good.

I love my Grand Prix. It's noticeably heavier than chromoly, but feels very solid and is great riding bike over all. I had to basically completely restore the drive train/brakes, but I think it was completely worth it. Whenever I'm going riding in town, I grab the Grand Prix without hesitating. It still has the original steel wheels, but there is no rust and being 27" I can put wider tires on them for a more cushioned ride. It's much smoother than my Competition which has 700 x 23 tires and alloy rims. It'll do some decent speed in top gear too. Not racing speeds, but you can keep up with traffic. Well not on the highway, but you get my point. Also, the center pull brakes seem to work better than your standard brakes imo. I'm putting center pulls on all future projects. Good luck with the restoration!

are we talking lugs or dropouts?

That should rightfully be asked of bikerosity57.

lugs. Many of the dropouts are stamped, some are forged. I have no idea if they ever used cast, that seems to be a fairly recent approach

My 50-lb. Raleigh DL-1 is made of 2030.

Just sayin'.

Absolutely! Many high quality stamped steel lugs are/were one piece. In fact most are/were.

I believe "almost" all Raleighs, except for the really high end models (like the Raleigh Pro.) used stamped stel lugs, and many also used stamped, not forged drop-outs. There is absolutely no reason to consider that inferiour! My DL-1 has stamped lugs, and 1020 tubing, and stamped drop-outs on the forks. It is one of my pride and joys regardless.

Sorry, meant 2030..... early morning:-)

I think all 1970's lugs were Stamped. Perhaps TREK was one of the first companies to start using investment-cast lugs circa 1983 or 1984 (I bought an investment-cast-lugs Trek 500 Bicycle in 1985). Stamped lugs are lighter and are more versatile because they make it much simpler to change the frame angles. They are mild steel and meant to be cold-worked and have inform wall thicknesses, unlike investment-cast lugs.. A series of dies is used on a flat steel plate to form the lugs, and it is eventually welded and cleaned up. Today, most lugs are investment-cast. A well-made IC lug needs almost no attention from a framebuilder, whereas a 1970s set of stamped lugs would get a lot of attention to square the edges, thin the lugs at the shorelines, and smooth the mottled surfaces, especially if they were going to be chromed.

I wonder if one could measure ID of the DT and ST with a caliper reaching into the BB? We could also measure ST ID at the seat lug.

No, it's easier than that.

Get a series of sized plugs, and find the one that gets stuck; then you know the tubing is one size smaller.

Stamped lug, lower end bikes...


Forged drop, those with brand names stamped into them are (usually) the best quality. The first drop is an early Campagnolo drop and most forged drops are coupled with an integral rear derailleur hanger...


Better forged drops sport axle adjusters, as can be seen on this later forged Campagnolo drop...

Good morning! That's a stamped drop-out... The conversation (eleven years ago as well as today) was discussing stamped versus cast lugs. At least that's the direction it was going. ;P

-Gregory

The linked video answers some questions about Raleigh manufacturing technique. The video is not the same time frame as the bike in question, but I suspect that the process was not real different in the 40s and the 70s. How a Bicycle is Made (1945) on Vimeo