converting friction to index shifting
04-18-09 | 01:18 PM
#1
Thread Starter
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converting friction to index shifting
I've got an '89 Raleigh with Shimano components I added - Tiagra compact crank with Tiagra front derailleur and Deore rear derailleur and 9-speed cassette - but the shifters are friction. I'd like to keep them downtube but make them index so I can make cleaner shifts (particularly in the lower gears).
Any idea what I need to add to make these index instead of friction?
Cheers,
Any idea what I need to add to make these index instead of friction?
Cheers,
04-18-09 | 01:24 PM
#2
perpetually frazzled
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From: Linton, IN
Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer
Shimano has "power ratchet" shifters that you can buy that aren't exactly indexed, but aren't friction. They're easier to get in the right gear like an indexed, but the shift can be adjusted like a friction shifter...
04-18-09 | 01:29 PM
#3
Bianchi Goddess
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From: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
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Hello I have been out of the game for a few years but I am not aware that anyone made 9 spd downtube shifters. 'power ratchet'? are they like Campi record retro friction? these were cool shifter indeed.
04-18-09 | 01:37 PM
#4
perpetually frazzled
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From: Linton, IN
Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer
well, a place that I can immediately think of getting them is Rivendell, but I'm sure you can find them elsewhere as well...
VO has some that are similar, but are Dia Compes.
VO has some that are similar, but are Dia Compes.
04-18-09 | 03:00 PM
#6
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Shimano indexed 9 speed shifters are out there, and all you need to finish your conversion.
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04-18-09 | 03:36 PM
#7
04-18-09 | 03:38 PM
#8
I've never heard of Campy Record Retrofriction. Simplex yes, Campy no.
04-19-09 | 12:43 AM
#11
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Any particular reason? I thought all Shimano indexed deraileurs since like 1984 had the same pull ratio and as long as you had the correct derailleur for the max cog/max tooth difference then all that mattered was that you matched the number of cogs to the shifters. Or is this something Dura Ace specific? I haven't tried it but I would think that his combination would work fine with 9-speed DT Dura Ace shifters. They are plentiful on eBay.
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1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
1959 Bottecchia Milano-Sanremo(frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
04-19-09 | 05:07 AM
#12
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From: Atlanta
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Any particular reason? I thought all Shimano indexed deraileurs since like 1984 had the same pull ratio and as long as you had the correct derailleur for the max cog/max tooth difference then all that mattered was that you matched the number of cogs to the shifters. Or is this something Dura Ace specific? I haven't tried it but I would think that his combination would work fine with 9-speed DT Dura Ace shifters. They are plentiful on eBay.
So the OP should be good with Dura Ace 9 speed downtube shifters and his Deore rear derailer.
04-19-09 | 05:16 AM
#13
Said Sheldon:
"The major difference between pre-1997 Dura-Ace and the rest of the Shimano lines is the cable travel of the rear derailer. Old Dura-Ace used a shorter amount of cable travel per shift. This has to do with the geometry of the cable attachment. Since the cable moved a shorter distance per shift, effects of cable friction or inaccurate cable adjustment were magnified."
Not to worry, though; any 9-speed Shimano shifter will work with any 9-speed Shimano cassette.
See compatibility chart:
https://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
"The major difference between pre-1997 Dura-Ace and the rest of the Shimano lines is the cable travel of the rear derailer. Old Dura-Ace used a shorter amount of cable travel per shift. This has to do with the geometry of the cable attachment. Since the cable moved a shorter distance per shift, effects of cable friction or inaccurate cable adjustment were magnified."
Not to worry, though; any 9-speed Shimano shifter will work with any 9-speed Shimano cassette.
See compatibility chart:
https://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
Last edited by Trakhak; 04-19-09 at 05:20 AM.
04-20-09 | 06:54 AM
#16
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Hello dirtdrop. I remember the simplex ones they were very well done. Sachs had some too but they were bulky. the Campi ones were real nice and could be mistaken for regular friction.
04-20-09 | 08:42 AM
#17
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What is "retro" about retrofriction shifters? Is something directionally reversed from the typical shifter?
EDIT: Found this in a listserv archive --
Is that about right?
EDIT: Found this in a listserv archive --
I'm sure the next few hours will bring an onslaught of answers for
you. Retrofriction shifters have a very fine (it varies) ratcheting
action that only works on loosening cable tension (i.e.,
downshifting). So they are smooth pulling but offer a bit of
resistance the other way. My take is that they allow less friction
overall so that they offer lighter, more precise gear selection. With
old style pure friction shifters, if you set them too light, they had
a tendency to slip out of adjustment, and set tight enough to avoid
this, they aren't as smooth and precise as retrofriction levers.
Examples are Simplex, aka Mavic, including some really nice bar end
controls, and Suntour (including their bar ends). If your only
experience with friction shifting is with index levers set to
friction mode, you must think friction really sucks; ditto for old
old pure friction setups with braided cable. But using good levers
with modern cable and housing, and index-type cogs can make friction
shifting so smooth and easy you soon forget about indexing.
Schenker
>Simple question: when downtube shifters are described as
>'retrofriction' how does that differ from standard friction or power
>ratchet shifters? I've seen both Mavic and Campagnolo shifters
>designated as retrofriction.
>
>TIA
>Michael
you. Retrofriction shifters have a very fine (it varies) ratcheting
action that only works on loosening cable tension (i.e.,
downshifting). So they are smooth pulling but offer a bit of
resistance the other way. My take is that they allow less friction
overall so that they offer lighter, more precise gear selection. With
old style pure friction shifters, if you set them too light, they had
a tendency to slip out of adjustment, and set tight enough to avoid
this, they aren't as smooth and precise as retrofriction levers.
Examples are Simplex, aka Mavic, including some really nice bar end
controls, and Suntour (including their bar ends). If your only
experience with friction shifting is with index levers set to
friction mode, you must think friction really sucks; ditto for old
old pure friction setups with braided cable. But using good levers
with modern cable and housing, and index-type cogs can make friction
shifting so smooth and easy you soon forget about indexing.
Schenker
>Simple question: when downtube shifters are described as
>'retrofriction' how does that differ from standard friction or power
>ratchet shifters? I've seen both Mavic and Campagnolo shifters
>designated as retrofriction.
>
>TIA
>Michael
