Viscount/Lambert owners
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 193
Bikes: Raleigh Sports, Giant Cadex, Waterford X-11, Specialized Rockhopper Comp FS, Viscount Aerospace Pro, Scwinn Passage
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
^ If you can get you're hands on a spindle that looks like it would work, I;d be interested.
Blake
Blake
#77
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 20
Bikes: cheap and free ones
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hi guys
Ive just been working on an old Viscount Aerospace possibly a Gran Sport (cant see as the top tube decals are worn off), i salvaged the frame from the scrap pile at the local bike recycling with a siezed in seat post. After a few hours of cutting and hacking it away ive managed to get most of it out and knocked the last bit inside the tube. Ive got a couple of questions though;
To remove the bottom bracket is it just a case of taking the clips of and bashing the bearings out with the spindle?
Also what types of cranks does the spindle fit? i had a square taper set but no luck squeezing them on.
Cheers
J
Ive just been working on an old Viscount Aerospace possibly a Gran Sport (cant see as the top tube decals are worn off), i salvaged the frame from the scrap pile at the local bike recycling with a siezed in seat post. After a few hours of cutting and hacking it away ive managed to get most of it out and knocked the last bit inside the tube. Ive got a couple of questions though;
To remove the bottom bracket is it just a case of taking the clips of and bashing the bearings out with the spindle?
Also what types of cranks does the spindle fit? i had a square taper set but no luck squeezing them on.
Cheers
J
Last edited by The Consumer; 02-28-10 at 05:45 PM.
#78
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,786
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3588 Post(s)
Liked 3,400 Times
in
1,934 Posts
Also what types of cranks does the spindle fit? i had a square taper set but no luck squeezing them on.
Once you get the old bearings and spindle out you will find that the shell is unthreaded and really too thin to be safely tapped with threads. Your best bet is probably one of the new threadless bottom bracket cartridges from Velo-Orange.
Last edited by JohnDThompson; 02-28-10 at 09:34 PM.
#79
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 20
Bikes: cheap and free ones
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cheers John
Looks like another project now. I take it getting your hands on Viscount chainsets are pretty difficult?
The treadless BB might have to be the way forward but not sure how good they are, also i believe you have to file off the protruding tubes withing the BB shell, has anyone done this before?
Looks like another project now. I take it getting your hands on Viscount chainsets are pretty difficult?
The treadless BB might have to be the way forward but not sure how good they are, also i believe you have to file off the protruding tubes withing the BB shell, has anyone done this before?
#80
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3090 Post(s)
Liked 6,599 Times
in
3,785 Posts
__________________
#81
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 20
Bikes: cheap and free ones
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ooops
I knew i had read that somewhere yesterday! Been a long day in uni already and its only lunch time...I should really focus on that instead!
Cheers
I knew i had read that somewhere yesterday! Been a long day in uni already and its only lunch time...I should really focus on that instead!
Cheers
#82
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
I recently finished rebuilding an early 70's Lambert Grand Prix into something more like a Sports.
I wanted to upgrade an English three-speed but wanted a lightweight frame in a large size, so I got this 62 cm Lambert. I used a YST BB. The fenders (mudguards) aren't quite the right color because they're from another bike. Sturmey Archer 5 speed hub, dynamo front hub, both hubs have drum brakes. Home made LED lights built into old light housings. 26" wheels (26 x 1.5" tires) to lower the BB as much as possible and 140mm cranks.
I wanted to upgrade an English three-speed but wanted a lightweight frame in a large size, so I got this 62 cm Lambert. I used a YST BB. The fenders (mudguards) aren't quite the right color because they're from another bike. Sturmey Archer 5 speed hub, dynamo front hub, both hubs have drum brakes. Home made LED lights built into old light housings. 26" wheels (26 x 1.5" tires) to lower the BB as much as possible and 140mm cranks.
#83
Hebrews 10:20a
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Bikes: '74 Viscount Aerospace GP
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Here is another webpage on overhauling the bottom bracket on a Viscount:
https://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html
-James
https://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html
-James
#84
Senior Member
What keeps the spindle from floating back and forth? I don't see any clips, or stops? Is one bearing permanently fixed on the spindle? Just curious?,,,,BD
__________________
So many bikes, so little dime.
So many bikes, so little dime.
Last edited by Bikedued; 03-01-10 at 10:40 AM.
#85
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Basically, yes. The bearings will likely be ruined in the process, if they aren't already.
For some unknown and ridiculously ill-considered reason, the Lambert spindle is untapered. This not only makes it incompatible with all other square taper cranks known to man, but also gives it a built-in tendency to self-loosen and ruin the arms. Not only that, but the grooves for the circlips create a stress raiser that led to spindle failure. What were they thinking?
For some unknown and ridiculously ill-considered reason, the Lambert spindle is untapered. This not only makes it incompatible with all other square taper cranks known to man, but also gives it a built-in tendency to self-loosen and ruin the arms. Not only that, but the grooves for the circlips create a stress raiser that led to spindle failure. What were they thinking?
Relatively few of the BB spindles in their various guises broke. Most failures were likely due to materials quality issues not the design principles used.
Due to a need to get to the bottom of things (I am always wary of internet wisdom) and find out if I have a safe bicycle I have shown the Lambert and Viscount BB spindles to a number of professional structural engineers. Their views have all been the same. Having circlip grooves does not fundamentally weaken the design of what is a 17mm diameter solid steel bar. Failure would be down to the material itself not being to specification. Again given the production volumes - at least 150,000 circlip grooved BB spindles have been made - some breakages would be inevitable. A friend of mine has broken Dura Ace and a fair few Campagnolo Record cranks over the years. These metal components we use from time to time are gonna break!!
I have a number of Viscount BB spindles which are still giving sterling service after 33 years of continuous use/abuse.
I can't help but feel slightly sorry for Lambert's engineers and designers. They broke new ground in bicycle design with some of their products, something which has never really been acknowledged. There is also a fair bit of largely untrue information on the internet too. Oh well. That's life I suppose....
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 909
Bikes: Klein
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The earliest Lambert BB spindles were untapered and suitable for use with their own cranks. There were very few cranks which worked loose on these spindles. Those that did were a result of machining failure at the factory - something which was bound to happen when you have to knock out 50,000 of the things per year - and/or poor assembly. This spindle design was changed on later Lamberts to an ISO type taper which was subsequently used by Viscount and later copied by Klein. This information is apparently contrary to much of what is out there on the net. However I gained this TRUE information from the very people who worked for Lambert from 1972 - 1974 (when they sadly went bust)...
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 909
Bikes: Klein
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The bearing fits the BB shell tightly and the spindle fits inside of the bearing tightly. I believe this is called and interference fit. It actually take a bit of force o press the spindle on the bearings and the bearings into the shell.
#88
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,786
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3588 Post(s)
Liked 3,400 Times
in
1,934 Posts
I can't help but feel slightly sorry for Lambert's engineers and designers. They broke new ground in bicycle design with some of their products, something which has never really been acknowledged. There is also a fair bit of largely untrue information on the internet too. Oh well. That's life I suppose....
#89
Senior Member
In hindsight it's pretty obvious that the un-tapered spindles were a poor design choice. They allow virtually no manufacturing tolerance and no tolerance for wear. On a tapered BB it's not catastrophic if the hole/spindle interface is off slightly, it just moves the crank in/out a bit. On a non-tapered design, it will cause the fit to be too tight or too loose.
That said, I have a Viscount with the tapered BB so I know they were produced at one point.
That said, I have a Viscount with the tapered BB so I know they were produced at one point.
#90
Senior Member
Cheers John
Looks like another project now. I take it getting your hands on Viscount chainsets are pretty difficult?
The treadless BB might have to be the way forward but not sure how good they are, also i believe you have to file off the protruding tubes withing the BB shell, has anyone done this before?
Looks like another project now. I take it getting your hands on Viscount chainsets are pretty difficult?
The treadless BB might have to be the way forward but not sure how good they are, also i believe you have to file off the protruding tubes withing the BB shell, has anyone done this before?
#91
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 20
Bikes: cheap and free ones
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Iowegian
Cheers for the kind offer, i may well get back in touch regarding one of them. At the moment though i might have to hold off the Viscount for a while as money and time are too tight.
The frame was too nice to disapear into the scrap just for a siezed seatpost but at 58cm its too big for myself so thought i could get it on the road for a friend and clear up some of my stock pile of parts at the same time without any real costs....never happens the way i plan!
Give me a few weeks and i'll probably feel the urge to get it built, maybe just as a single speed though.
Cheers for the help and offer.
Jonny
Cheers for the kind offer, i may well get back in touch regarding one of them. At the moment though i might have to hold off the Viscount for a while as money and time are too tight.
The frame was too nice to disapear into the scrap just for a siezed seatpost but at 58cm its too big for myself so thought i could get it on the road for a friend and clear up some of my stock pile of parts at the same time without any real costs....never happens the way i plan!
Give me a few weeks and i'll probably feel the urge to get it built, maybe just as a single speed though.
Cheers for the help and offer.
Jonny
#92
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: montana
Posts: 196
Bikes: Early 90's Pinarello Gavia, '84 Guerciotti, '91 GF Hoo Koo e Koo, '88 Giant Iguana, '09 Specialized XC
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Looking to put in a threadless BB. bbllaakke, what size/make BB did you buy? How's it working? well I hope. I'm excited about getting this rig running again.
A few pics of its former glory here
A few pics of its former glory here
#93
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: montana
Posts: 196
Bikes: Early 90's Pinarello Gavia, '84 Guerciotti, '91 GF Hoo Koo e Koo, '88 Giant Iguana, '09 Specialized XC
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Wondered if any of you Viscount owners could measure or know what spindle length came on these bikes. I want to get a threadless BB and need to know. I don't have my old one to measure. Thanks out there.
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 537
Bikes: 2006 Specialized Tarmac Expert, 1990 Specialized Allez Epic, Specialized RockCombo (winter), 70's Motobecane Team Champion,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Be glad to...replaced lots of these forks during my bikeshop days in the mid 70's. Viscount was distributed by Yamaha and once the fork issue surfaced, they got "on it" with recall notices. As you know, the "death fork" was aluminum blades with a "press fit" steel steering tube...not the strongest fabrication...tended to work loose! The Viscount was ahead of its time in many ways (sealed bearing BB, fillet brazed frame, relatively light) but not everything on the bike was well thought out..for instance the TA inspired chainrings with seemingly a jillion chainring bolts of various sizes. Also when the sealed cartridges crapped out or worked loose, we would tap new threads in the BB with an Italian Tap since it is slightly bigger than English thread BB. We would then install a threaded Italian BB & spindle....far more reliable. The marketing campaign for these bikes was extraordinary for its time. I remember seeing full-sized billboards with a Viscount in the foreground and a private jet in the background with the caption: The Viscount has landed. This was the first ad campaign I saw for bicycles that promoted them as a high-tech serious machine rather than a toy. It pleases me to no end to see this thread and the splendid examples of restored Viscounts that all of you have posted.
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 537
Bikes: 2006 Specialized Tarmac Expert, 1990 Specialized Allez Epic, Specialized RockCombo (winter), 70's Motobecane Team Champion,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
See my other post..when we repaired BB's that crapped out or worked loose, we tapped the BB shell with Italian threads since these are a bit larger diameter than the English size. By doing this we were able to cut threads deep enough to accept an threaded Italian BB & spindle which was far more reliable. It has to be done carefully..the diciest part is getting the threads started "straight" in the threadless BB..
#96
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,470 Times
in
1,435 Posts
It was a brilliant ad campaign. It gave the image of a bike of greater quality than it actually was. I wanted it so badly as a teenager. That indicates how smart the ads were.
For the price, it was a VERY light bike. The Lambert components, though, were not so hot, even though they had cartridge bearings. I adore the look of the chainrings, even now.
I am scouring craigslist and ebay, waiting for one to show up in my area at a decent price. If I get l lucky, I'll buy one, fix it up, enjoy it for a while, and then sell it. I expect riding it will be a bit of a let-down.
By the way, how do y'all pronounce Viscount? I know the proper way is "VYE count" though I don't know if people know that and think it rhymes with "discount."
For the price, it was a VERY light bike. The Lambert components, though, were not so hot, even though they had cartridge bearings. I adore the look of the chainrings, even now.
I am scouring craigslist and ebay, waiting for one to show up in my area at a decent price. If I get l lucky, I'll buy one, fix it up, enjoy it for a while, and then sell it. I expect riding it will be a bit of a let-down.
By the way, how do y'all pronounce Viscount? I know the proper way is "VYE count" though I don't know if people know that and think it rhymes with "discount."
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#97
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3090 Post(s)
Liked 6,599 Times
in
3,785 Posts
Here is one of those ads. I have more, too, if anyone is interested.
__________________
#98
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
See my other post..when we repaired BB's that crapped out or worked loose, we tapped the BB shell with Italian threads since these are a bit larger diameter than the English size. By doing this we were able to cut threads deep enough to accept an threaded Italian BB & spindle which was far more reliable. It has to be done carefully..the diciest part is getting the threads started "straight" in the threadless BB..
-Kurt
#99
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,470 Times
in
1,435 Posts
See, isn't that gorgeous for a mid-range bike? And the chainrings are the absolute best.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#100
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts