I read through about 5 archived threads that mentioned this subject but none were clear enough to teach a newbie the hot rock difference.

I removed the crankset from a 70s Raleigh LTD and the axle was still grinding and not turning smoothly so I opened the bottom bracket and in with the grease and bearings was a bunch of gritty yuck.

so i have to replace the bearings? or can i just relube? and once i do, how to i get the axle to sit tightly..i find when i put it back together it wiggles.
did i forget something totally obvious? if the instructions for this lay somewhere please direct me to it..

thanks
EG


i found this from SB, is this the answer i seek?

Yes, thSheldon has some good info.

Also, words and "pictures" here.

https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=93

Clean all your stuuf up in Simple Green or some other decent cleaner and inspect so that you know what you need to buy. Replace the balls even if they look good and inspect the other items as pictured.

Ok, you're on the right track. You know it sounds gritty and it looks gritty, therefore it IS gritty. Grit has to be removed. First so you can see if there is real damage, rather than just dirt, and second so the grit is gone and will not create more damage.

First step is to count the number of balls on each side and write that down. They are probably the same size on each side, and the same number. Clean all the parts with a solvent or Simple Green degreaser to remove all the old grease and the grit. There may be some scrubbing or hard rubbing with a clean rag involved. I think you cleaned out and repacked wheel bearings for those Mombikes, right? This is the same thing only bigger. The drive side cup will probably not come out in a patient time frame, so it's ok to clean it by reaching your fingers in and wiping. You should also wipe out the inside of the BB shell as well as possible. There might be a sleeve in there that protects teh bearings from crud that may fall in from another frame tube.

Ok, now that the balls, spindle, and cups ar eall clean and shiny, measure the diameter of the balls so you know what size to buy at teh LBS or teh LHS (local hardware store).

Take out a magnifying glass and look close at the surfaces where the balls contact the cups and the spindles.

There should be either no wear track (if your karma is perfect) or a smooth path where the balls have tromped through the years.

A rough track might be a problem, and a series of evenly-spaced deep divots IS a problem.

Another assessment to make is to take a ball-point pen and run the point along this track and next to the track to feel the difference between used and never-used. It will also let you feel the presence of wear. Any flaking of the hard finished surface is bad.

Check the fixed cup these same ways, it's just harder to reach it and feel it.

Flaked, divoted, or excessively-worn parts (cups or spindles) should be replaced, unless you can find someone who can be trusted and has a way to resurface and re-harden the parts. NOW you can speak intelligently about what needs to be replaced and what does not.

Buy new bearing balls. There's a lengthy debate possible about what grade, but I tend ot prefer Grade 100 for general purpose. I sprang for Grade 25 for the original Campy BB on my Masi, and it came out very smooth. I don't know what Raleigh or the other Brit companies specified for three-speeds.

Picking grease is a similarly contentious issue. I tend to prefer Phil's over old Pedro's, just because Phil's has a reputation of excluding moisture. I have not done a full study of grease, I'm sure there will be a debate.

I don't know if you should use threadlock (blue) or not for this kind of bike, but a little grease or at least oil on the BB threads would be a good idea, if you have wiped them down as well as possible. Some rinse inside would not be a bad idea, at least wipe with a solvent-dipped rag or q-tips.

I grease the drive side cup kind heavily and the drive side of the spindle, and place the original nummber of balls around the cup into the grease. Then insert the spindle into the BB and the end through the hole in the cup, being careful not to knock any balls loose. It should seat smoothly and you should be able to turn it when is home and enjoy the feeling of a smooth bearing turning. If it doesn't feel good, something might be wrong, so there's no problem with gingerly removing, inspecting, and re-assembling. After a try or two you'll see how it all works.

Grease the non-drive cup and spindle bearing surface, put balls into the cup, and just as carefully lead the cup up onto the spindle. When the cup wants to be threaded into the BB, do it gently so as to feel if there are any obstructions in the threads and to ensure no cross-threading. When it stops solid you have both bearings in contact, and sit back and feel the smooth joy of fresh bearings. Once you get it adjusted and lock-nutted correctly, it should be good for another few years if not 50. But after this one should really be overhauling the BB on general principles to eliminate the chances of grit damage.

Bearing adjustment is just like hubs. When the locknut or lockring is tight, it should be just tight enough that it has no rock or wiggle, but spins smoothly and freely. This setting is safe, in terms of proper support for the spindle and rigid positioning, and allowing maximum free spinning. It is definitely possible to complete this step better than the factory did.

When you get the drive and non-drive crank arms back on and secured, spend 10 minutes enjoying the flywheel effect.

I don't know if Park has any graphical instructoins about this, but if they have anything for cup and cone front hubs, it should be the same essential procedure, except for cleaning out the BB housing.

now i have the distinct impression that this bracket has been opened before i got to it.
all the bearings were just laying on the bottom of the bracket
there was just 18 bearings sitting in a soup.

i think i am missing something here.
do we have pictures of what is supposed to be in there?
i have 4 OLD bike repair books, none have diagrams of what it is supposed to look like.


i will take some pictures. what you are describing doesn't sound like what i have.

So this is what I have ...minus all the brown gunk.
and obviously i am missing some bearings.

and i am hoping that the bottom picture is what i need to do with them.

i reread Road Fan instructions on packing and i am stuck on how to get the bearings into the fixed side.
the only way i can see to do this is to put the bike flat on the ground and drop the bearings in and then insert the spindle.
am i missing a 'cup'?

The bearings kind-of stick to the grease, but laying the bike on its side will help with that. I use my finger through the drive-side cup to help align the bearings in the grease evenly before inserting the axle.

Slap the grease in there like peanut butter and don't be shy about it. Then you can stick the bearings down in that (I really like using a pair of tweezers to do this) and they'll stay in place. If the fixed cup is really fixed in the frame, laying the bike on its side will make things easier.

You can also poke the balls in from the fixed cup side, through the hole, up into the fresh grease. The grease will hold them while you populate the bearing. If they try to slide out, slip your pinky up into the hole to keep them in place. When complete, put the spindle in and they will stay put while you finish the adjustable cup side.

Take your time adjusting the preload on the bearings. Many times, when you tighten the lock ring, you lose the preload/adjustment. You have to futz with it to get it right.

As per Sheldon.... I find that it's easier to put the grease on the drive side cone (on the spindle) and then stick the balls in the grease. Carefully insert the spindle into the BB.

Allan

i did it!
i did it!
once i bought up the bearings and the grease
i knew exactly what to do.
the grease is sticky enough to hold the bearings in place.
then it was just like playing Operation..

and i did see that if you tighten the cup too much you lose the smooth glide
so you have to back it out before attaching the locking nut.

thanks folks for holding my hand.
i'm gonna feel smug about this all day.

another newbie question HOW smooth should it spin?
in otherwords how can i tell i have them in just right?
seems to me if there is naught in there but balls and grease and it turns smoothly
i'm kinda done
but should it spin faster?

thanks!!!

Just tight enough that there is no deflection on the crank arms, but no tighter. I spin it pretty good first to make sure bearings are fully seated. Easiest to adjust with just the crank side installed (leave the other crank arm off). Makes it easier to get your tools to the lock ring.

It won't necessarily spin "fast" but it should definitely spin without hesitation. If you have a new sealed cartridge BB (or have access to one) feel how it spins. It doesn't feel like metal/metal it (the spindle) almost feels as if it is suspended in grease (of course there should be no lateral play).

But I could also phrase it this way, you will definitely know if it is too tight, and you will definitely know if it is too loose, just get it right in between there, and patience pays off.

+1

you are so right
'just right' has a feel to it.
once i put the crankset back on, it spun sweet, clean and silent.
it is hard to tell without the weight of the crankset.

i feel so so ...empowered.

You go, girl.

I have a nail punch that I keep a magnet on when not in use. This makes it just magnetic enough to use to install the new bearings after I have greased everything up good.

There's nothing quite like tightening the lockring and feeling the spindle turning smoothly in your hand. It means you did right.

Very nice description of how to do it. Thanks

Go to the hardware or automotive store and buy a small tub of waterproof marine bearing grease. It fairly inexpensive will last you a lifetime. As the name implies, it is waterproof, too. It even looks just like Phil Wood grease (hmm,... I wonder,...).

Congratulations!

Now a good test of the adjustment is to grab the ends of the crank arms once the cotters are seated and secured and wiggle them left and right. If there's any play (wiggle not associated with flexing the crank arms) the bearing adjustment is not tight enough. When it is tightened to the point where the play just completely disappears, the setting is right. The trick is still to achieve that condition with a tight lockring.

It's gonna ride nicer, you done good! like I said, get a cup of coffee and spend 10 minutes playing "spin the crank."

you're welcome!

Isn't it an awesome feeling? I frigging love bike mechanics.

I can just imagine you in the garage surrounded by girls' 3-speeds doing that little dance!

+1

I have to overhaul the bottom bracket on Raleigh Sports I bought for my wife, so this thread has been a huge help for me.