Thanks for the pics. I had a pretty good idea what cottered cranks were but not a clue w/ the lugged frame. Its pouring rain here as I wait for the phone to ring so I can go get my "new" bike (or ***). The first ride will be interesting in the rain.... reminds me of the day I brought home my first Honda cb450..

Topton, PA? You are probably pretty close to the Trexlertown Velodrome and the bike park (right off Hamilton between 100 and 222). A perfect place to go for a first ride (the park, not the velodrome ) short enough loop so if you have problems you won't have to walk it too far.

Only if it's raining. Loosen up the purse strings and get some new pads!!!!!!

The first frame pic shows a welded frame. Those are probabaly ok.

Some bikes are butt-brazed, meaning the ends of the tubing are stuck together with braze metal. They look like the welded frame without the welds. For brazing to be strong enough, you either need a lug or a fillet, which is where they build up plenty of braze metal for a tapered connection between the tubes.

Trexlertown Velodrome, lots of history there.

Folks often mention the Salmon colored KoolStop brake pads for steel rims.

Try to avoid pinched-on rear stays where it looks like the tubing was simply flattened or pinched onto the rear dropout bracket. Some front forks have been built this way as well.

Try to avoid the Positronic shifter setup. If the front cranks freely spin backwards without the chain moving abd if the rear cluster does not freewheel then I'd suggest avoiding it. Many folks have put many miles on Positronic bikes, but as a rule I avoid them.

And most important of all, when you do get one you have to report back and post pics of it.

Positronic was an early Shimano index shifting system with a detent on the rear derailleur. It is not the same as Forward Freewheel which is what you describe.

I think FF came in levels of quality. The one I had looked very high quality. However, you would have to replace the freewheel if something went wrong with the cranks and vice versa.

Stay away from a Huffy Durasport...obviously. I got it to ride at school only. But they are so bad I even dread riding it around campus between classes I guess that's what you get for 10 bucks.

Well the "garage full of bikes" was a bust. Lots and LOTS of huffys etc. Feeling dejected I stopped @ a goodwill and found a Panasonic sport 1000. Its about a 6/10 appearance wise, needs rubber (both tires flat), a REALLY good lube, rims (steel) trued, bar wrap etc. It's blue w/ all the decals (including the one that states HIGH TENSILE STEEL). It is a lugged frame (except where the rear triangle connects to the seat tube, very small contact there and made me a little nervous), quick release front hub. There was too much grime to tell what brand the components were. Now to the important part. They wanted $50 for it. I walked away....

Being a child of the '70s who rode my 'ten speed' while wearing bell bottoms, still remembering catching and ripping my pants in the chainwheel more than once, Id never ever consider a front-freewheel system.

Being a child of the '70s who rode my 'ten speed' while wearing bell bottoms, still remembering catching and ripping my pants in the chainwheel more than once, Id never ever consider a front-freewheel system.

The rear cluster is actually a freewheel as well on the FF system. It will freewheel if anything jamsthe chain. Shimano was not blind to the possibility of pant legs ending up in the mix!

How is a "rear-freewheel" system any more bell-bottom-resistant?

ROBE30,
Right $50 is about $30 too much.
This sorta' points out the problem with buying a bike with an "adequate steel" frame ve Chrome Moly steel. The price for a bike in riding shape should be about $40 for a cheapo steel frame vs maybe $100-$150 for Chrome Moly. Unfortunately sellers of a nice looking bike-good shape, but with cheapo steel-usually want $70 or so because it is "vintage etc". For about double that, you get a bike with a frame-chromo-that is worth upgrading if you want to someday-and will be easier to sell someday.

Take your time-lotta' bikes out there. It is Usually best to buy the best used bike you can afford with no defects, or repairs needed.A good frame can be upgraded, no point in upgrading a plain steel frame(silk purse, sow's ear).
Luck
Charlie

The momentum of the bike working through the chain could cause an injury to foot, leg, or ankle, or cause a fall. When the rear freewheels, the momentum to continue only comes from the chain, crankset, freewheel, and your legs, and the worst that happens is you tear your pants.

The rear sprockets do freewheel, though. It's a safety feature. Each sprocket has a couple of spring loaded pawls. They turn stiffly because they are sandwiched together with nylon bushings and don't have a bearing to ride on, but they will turn. They are retained on the hub by a spring and circlip so the pressure clamping them together doesn't get too high to allow movement.

What is more important is that you find a bicycle that fits you properly; otherwise, you won't ride it.
A comfortable bike with hi-ten steel frame, steel wheels and a one piece crank is preferable to a full carbon, Campy Record dream machine that feels like a torture device.

I would recommend you go to a nice bike shop that'll spend some time finding the right bike for you and your needs. And they make sure the bike fits you just right.

They are retained on the hub by a spring and circlip so the pressure clamping them together doesn't get too high to allow movement


I don't know about that as I removed mine off the hub using a standard Shimano splined hub tool.

I avoid steel bikes like the plague. Certainly there is a cult of those that love steel, and they repeat the mantra 'steel is real'. I think if you say it long enough you start to believe it.

However, even the best steel bike leaves something to be desired. A classic Klein or Cannondale give such an incredible ride that's its impossible to compare to a vintage (or modern) steel bike. It would be like comparing your grandfathers truck to a Maserati.

Its not a popular perspective, but the reality is that aluminum, carbon, and titanium just build 'better' bikes than steel. The reason so many boutique builders work with steel is because its cheap. The skill level required to braze lugged steel bikes can not be compared to learning to TIG weld. Sure lugs are aesthetically pleasing, but they just don't build into epic bikes. A bike's soul is the frame and the wheelset. Starting with steel is starting with a compromise.

I don't avoid 27" wheels. These wheels have a 630mm BSD as opposed to the 622mm BSD on 700c wheels. It ain't much, but on frames over 66cm, of which plenty exist with 27" wheels, the difference in wheel size makes everything a little more proportional. After Continental stopped making the Top Touring 2000 tires in 27" my opinion is a little more qualified, but you can still get smart Schwalbe Marathons, Panaracer Paselas, and Michelin World Touring tires in 27". You can still get Continentals in 27" but they are more road race tires not the old touring tires I prefer for building up 'country' bikes.

Other bikes to avoid. At all costs avoid a bonded Vitus, whether it be an aluminum or carbon tubed bike. Every restoration and vintage expert I've ever seen comment on these has advised that the bikes not be ridden (at all) but only collected due to safety issues. Which is sad because they usually come with epic Mavic kit. These were great bikes, and very few are actually out on the road, and even fewer probably should be. Obviously the Viscount 'death' fork.

What else to avoid? Any vintage bike with an vintage alloy handlebar. Almost nothing can be as catastrophic as a complete loss of steerage on a bike at speed. Aluminum bars should be treated as 'schedule replacement' components on your bike just like your chain, rings, and cogs. The aluminum fatigues and after so many cycles they will fail. Its isn't a matter of if, but a matter of when.

Leonard Zinn says replace after four years of use, or one year of use if racing. Zinn has a background in physics, is the tech guy at Velonews, and builds his own components and bikes out of steel, aluminum, magnesium, and ti. Trust his opinion, he isn't just trying to get you to buy more bars.

Any bar that has hit the ground, either the bike falling over, or laying the bike down should be replaced in my book. The small diameter of vintage bars makes them especially suspect considering modern oversized stuff (less prone to failure).

I'd avoid anything that isn't equipped with a slant parallelogram derailleur. Until Suntour's pantent expired Campagnolo, Shimano, Huret, and Mavic were producing derailleurs that shifted much more poorly than the Suntour stuff. In looking to a vintage build know what it is, and why you want it. I don't have a problem with a vintage/classic bike being your only ride, but know what you have. With vintage stuff there are very real compromises...

I'm a huge Mavic buff, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone use the old Mavic brakesets. For my 'tout Mavic' build I'm using modern Mavic SSC brake calipers. I was pleasantly suprised to see that so many people preferred them to Dura-Ace and Campy Record calipers. Essentially a vintage bike should be avoided if it can't be ridden safely.

There is a boundary where keeping it period correct has to give way to safety. I think handlebars, brakesets, and tires are often overlooked on these bikes. I think that is a dangerous gamble. A blowout or a loss of steering on a technical descent or on a busy road could cost you your life.

To me that is the thing to avoid most of all...

Not entirely true. Columbia brazed frames without using a fillet or lugs for decades. But, they use an internal sleeve insert at the joints - so kind of like an internal lug. This was actually the way to build a bike up until external lugs became popular in the 1920s. External lugs caught on because they look pretty - Gormully & Jeffries pioneered external lugs and their copywriting of the time advised that external lugs made it easier for a buyer to examine the brazing of a frame (it does).

I personally like the super clean joins on the Columbia frames, even if there is a lot of excess brazing material left over on the inside of the frame...

Murray also brazed their frames, but they didn't sleeve all joints, only some such as the joints at the bottom bracket were sleeved. However for both companies, the tubes actually have to pass into eachother at the joints, unlike the butt welded frames from Huffy where the join is sometimes soley made to the exterior surface of the tubes.

Just so you know:

This is what an internally sleeved, brazed Columbia frame joint looks like. So sharp you could cut your hair on it.

It's a moot point though, since I'll admit a ten speed Columbia is nearly as heavy as a Schwinn Varsity (about nine hundred and twenty five thousand tons) so not what you should be looking for.



Reread the original post. Then come up with any logical reason a steel framed bike would fail to provide what he wants.

Thanks for showing us how to spot the cranks. Now I have another one-just what is the problem with cottered cranks?

The cotter can wear out. The cranks can wear out. The cotter can wear out, causing the cranks to wear out, ruining the cotter and the cranks. They're usually heavy. They're usually on the cheapest bikes (unless you go waaayyy back into the 1950s, then they were on the best bikes too).

When they're in good condition, they work. When they're in bad condition they wobble, have slop, make noise, etc. In my opinion, worse than one piece ashtabula cranks - unless you happen across cranks in excellent pristine condition.

Thanks for the info on the vintage alloy bars. I wouldnt have thought about that, but that would really ruin your day. As far as the cottered cranks go, I had a set on an old Hutch BMX that I had when I was a kid and they were a PITA. They would always loosen up on me and I actually took some gutter material and made a shim to "fix" it.

You removed the sprockets with a splined hub tool? Don't think so. You may have removed the entire cluster assembly but not the sprockets.

Then this: "The aluminum fatigues and after so many cycles they will fail. Its isn't a matter of if, but a matter of when."

Huh? Boutique builders are making high end steel bikes, but cutting corners using "cheaper" steel tubes? If they knew better they would be using aluminum?

A lot of those internally lugged bikes got rebadged and you can't always tell who made it.

I feel you contradict yourself with these two points! Varsitys are heavy but very strong, durable bikes which often come in great colors and are appreciated by some as the classics they are. You rarely notice weight on a bike unless you do a lot of climbing, racing, or loading/unloading into a car or something.

You may have removed the entire cluster assembly but not the sprockets.

That is true...I assumed you meant the wheel hub