A straight bar Ti cross disc with a few rack lugs would be my ultimate for sneaking off on the logging roads and taking "short cuts" of a week or so, then back on the tarmac for cheese burger and fries.

Bad A** ....

Minor thread hijack, but I'd like a folding titanium Brompton-like bike from UFB:

https://www.ufbusa.com/Ultimate_Foldi...Home_Page.html

Too bad they quit development.

That is it in a nutshell. Back in the day of vintage lightweights many steel makes were making a killing selling cheap steel tubing as thousand dollar "framesets" as value added. The punchline being that anyone can learn to build a very nice steel frame in about two days. If you let someone build for a year, you'd be hardpressed to tell their frames apart from the acknowledged master builders if examples of both were stripped and repainted, and the bikes were dressed with identical neutral components.

In reality most people like the fit and finish of a custom hand crafted steel bike, but like their Joe Bell paint job even more. What is true, and was back in the day, is that the technical competence required to weld aluminum and titanium can't even be seriously compared to what is required to work with steel. You can learn to lug a steel bike in an afternoon, if someone competent shows you. You can learn to lay a TIG bead on a steel bike in about a week.

If you can weld aluminum or titanium competently you are making near six figures working for a defense contractor (not building bikes), and you are near the pinnacle of your craft.

Back in the day, when the likes of Masi were relocating to the US to cash in on the bike boom, aluminum bikes from Cannondale and Klein were lighter, stronger, stiffer and faster than anything the steel boys had, or reasonably could come up with. When you can't compete on product you compete on misinformation. The bike industry geared up to castigate rumors of Cannondales being "too stiff."

The funny thing is that some of these preposterous rumors endure. We all know someone who has a Quintana Roo hanging in their garage with some torture device of a solid carbon shell TT "saddle" adorned on it. That cyclist will boast of how the near 100g "saddle" saves him seconds on the bike portion of his Tri. The funny thing is that same cyclist has a custom steel build that he boasts is more "comfortable" than anything else he has ever ridden. He believes it too.

Truth is that a vintage Klein or Cannondale from that era is STILL a freakin' phenomenal rocket bike. Veritable craigslist race bikes if built up with modern carbon fork, wheels and components. No the steel makers of the world were NOT going to survive selling people snake oil with a Colnago sticker on it any longer.

Titanium is more interesting for singles. You can make an epic bike out of ti. It is durable, comfortable, and can almost be built to be as great of a climber as an aluminum bike, and can almost be built to be as effective in a sprint. However, while you want to race on aluminum, you want to take that once in a lifetime bike vacation on your titanium bike. It doesn't need to climb as effectively, it doesn't need to purely accelerate. There is more to a great bike than just pure speed, and pure efficacy of translated energy.

However, some hack master builder can't work with titanium because in reality he isn't really a tenth the craftsman he purports to be, so titanium gets shortchanged a lot. To me it is idiocy to build a custom bike out of steel. That is like having a custom engagement ring setting designed to display a lump of coal.

Titanium always builds a better bike than steel. ALWAYS.

As for tandems, while titanium makes great singles, it is very hard to build a good titanium tandem. There are just too many limitations on the available tubesets. If you talk to someone who has a 68cm or larger custom titanium single, odds are you know someone who sold it for pennies on the dollar. They hated it. It was noodly like wet spaghetti and they were completely disappointed in the ride characteristics. Big powerful cyclists on big bikes with big triangles embarass steel and titanium frames. However, even little cyclists on tandems can stress a tandem frame beyond the material's build range.

Nothing is as disappointing on a tandem as a flexy inefficient frame. Lateral frame stiffness is required on a tandem. Quite simply you can always build a better tandem out of epoxy or aluminum than titanium. We won't mention steel. There is no such thing as a quality steel tandem. These are price point bikes even if they have a Santana or Co-Motion sticker on them.

Titanium does seem to give a little more than steel, and much more than aluminum, which is why they typically use larger tubes for the down tube (kind of like modern steel tandem tubes) it makes the bottom bracket more rigid and you feel less flex when you pedal. I've ridden a Ti bike that was built with a single size of tubing (it looked equvalent to OS tubing in diameter) and that bike felt a little "whippy" when you stood up to pedal. I think the more you weigh the more likely you are to feel the flex as well.
I like a bike made of titanium with a carbon fork for my longer rides, just because its so comfortable. I like the feel of steel almost as much, but find my hands and arms are more prone to tingling/going to sleep perhaps because of road vibrations. I've yet to put a carbon fork on any of my steel bikes so I'm not sure if that is the difference.

CMC

I had a really good laugh tonight watching the pundits on Fox News explaining the reasons for the Republican failure last night. Did not think anything could compare until I read this gibberish.

Congratulations, you just made me blow coffee out my nose.


https://www.strongframes.com/more_stu...ls_tech/specs/
Just one of many comparisons that can be found listing the relative merits of different materials. Not seeing always listed...

I really have a hard time understanding (and a good time laughing) as European to see all these American politicians and preachers tumble over each other with the weirdest and most out-of-touch quotes laden with religious fervour (hi, senator Todd!), but I think this guy is a branch of the same tree.

If the thread isn't already locked... I read the whole flippin' thing, and there are many opinions and factoids, and lots of "I want one too"... but besides the known fact of the Teledyne Ti breaking issue, where's the dirt?

Does anyone has some real evidence that titanium production is worse than mountain top removal for coal mining, shale oil/tar sands oil production, copper or aluminum production etc? Show us the stains, please. Otherwise, I'm not going to be too shy about saying that I'd like a nice riding modern Ti too, just so I can stop worrying about the expense of upgrading my 30 and 40 year old steel - which won't make them much lighter anyhow.

Even if I possessed one, I can bet that in 40 years I would have a hard time finding components that fit on it.

Love my Ti Litespeed Ocoee from 1994(?).
.

I love my Titanium but... I don't know where he gets that information.

That might be my dream bike.

I've got a Titus road frame (Titus is known for MTBs) set up with an Alfine 11-speed hub, nice Mavic road rims, composite bars, brooks saddle, Reynolds 953 (stainless) fork. Parts from all over. Comes in at about 20 lbs, lighter than my Guerciotti, which is all-Campy. I prefer the TI ride though. I can make better time on it and the ride is easier.

Pics or it didn't happen.

No controversy here. I've got a ti roadie and she's one of the nicer riding steeds I've owned.

Ti first got a bad rap with bicycles in the 1982 Girod'Italia when Laurent Fignon had a bad fall while he was in the lead due to a broken Super Record axle. This resulted in a second generation Super Record with steel replacing the previous Ti parts (while the SR Ti axle is legendary, there is no evidence they were ever available beyond the pro sponsored riders). Titanium tube sets cost about the same as 853 steel, but like 953 (that costs a couple $100 more), the cost of the frame is in the build not the tubes. It should be noted that there is more titanium in a Boeing 747 than all the ti bike frames ever built; close to 20 tons. To those that judge the ultimate metal as strength to weight, Reynolds 853 is equal to ti and 953 is 25% stronger; a good frame maker can coax any ride quality out of any material.

I read this in another post I've ridden a slew of both materials (ti and steel) and I think materials come in about last place when I think about how a bike feels beneath me.

-> https://www.rewelbikes.com/It/home.asp



They build to your specs and have load of experience, one of the Ti pioneers. Very competitive pricing too. Go on holiday in the Dolomites and order your bike..

Also recommendeable: Van Nicholas

I like my Ti bike just fine!

The only thing I don't like about the ti bike above is that it's not mine.

Too small to ride, but large enough not to need my reading glasses to look at it. Which is good, as it's probably the best-looking bike I own.

that bike looks like the Euro answer to the Surly Long Haul Trucker. being TI and Euro tho, I assume the price is 3x higher. still, looks hella fun.

Well, the answer came15 years before the question, Rewel started using Titanium in 1986.
Rewels are actually quite a bit cheaper than a Moots, Litespeed or Merlin over here, and they do any geometry you like (Friend of mine had them build him a Hardtail MTB with the same angles and position as his fully Giant).
They aren't expensive - starting below 2000€ for a custom made to measure frame.

Van Nicholas are budget Ti frames, starting at 1700€ for the Rohloff Randonneur.

Did you pay a model for that photo?

No I just bought her lunch at the end of the shoot!

I guess I should go on and build up the other Spectrum as well. I can't run on these 23-25 tires to much.

I need my 35s, so I should build the new one up!