Neal, how many times did you have a tire vs. a tube fail in long rides? Tire failure is usually because of the sidewall being in its last legs and encountering a nasty bump, or the installation is not proper.

For a brevet series I would recommend getting new tires with a lot of puncture resistance (like gatorskins) and new tubes and carry an extra tube, plus a couple of the spray inflating things that seal tube leaks and inflate the tires.

I've had nasty sidewall cuts, but fortunately they've been rare. And I agree with your advice, but as I noted above, the bike I'd be using has 650B wheels, so finding a foldable spare is pretty limited (ideally, I can pretzel up a wire bead tire if I had to, I suppose).

Actually, on my last 100K of the summer, I had two flats in the last five miles because my rim strip somehow slipped (I didn't figure that out until after I got home). So include a couple of extra rim strips on your list.

Neal

its cool. hey, who makes a 650b frame out the box?

not for me, but they will probably sell every one of those they make.

Cross frame? WTF? Yeah, I can really see someone running up a muddy hill with this thing slung over their shoulder.

Rivendell

In case you haven't been keeping up with pricing, 853 Lemonds are going for WAY over $200. Once Trek dumped Lemond prices jumped overnight. It's hard to find one let alone a cheap one.

As far as generic tubing goes, Surly doesn't have any problem getting $400 for a generic tube made in China frame.

I like the new VO frameset, but the 650b wheels would be a killer for me as well. I don't need a bike with wheels that are non-compatible with my other ones. However, Velo-Orange is also bringing out a new Randonneur frame soon, and it uses 700c wheels, at least in the larger sizes. The Rando frame is supposed to be priced at $700, and I believe it is lugged.

If you like the basic geometry, design and price of the VO city bike, check out the new Soma Saga touring frame. It has many of the same features and only costs about $500 as well.

I had a michelin city (rear) 700c sidewall blowout/tear after only a few hundred miles, both tires were like new. It can happen. I never did figure out the cause.

I can't figure out where he got the idea that it's intended to be a 'cross frame.

I would never consider buying it because it's not lugged. That's just my taste, though. There's nothing inferior about a tig welded frame.

Maybe a cross frame in that it's a multi-purpose frame? Hence the name - Polyvalent...

Just guessing, maybe it's the 73" head tube angle and 67mm BB drop?

https://info.velo-orange.com/FrameSpecs.html

Uh, 1/4" on the diameter, so just 1/8" on the radius and that's how far up the brake pads would have to move. It's actually hard to design a 650B frame that won't accept 650A wheels. Many Kogswell and Berliot "650B" frames have been built 650A.

650C, however, is different enough in size that it is not remotely as interchangeable on the same frames.

tcs

Good question!

"Planing" is a term Jan Hiene of Bicycle Quarterly coined to describe bikes he'd ridden on brevets that seemed to have a symbiotic interaction with his pedaling and upon which he was able to ride faster with no more effort. The idea was that instead of trying to achieve the modern goal of an infinitely stiff frame, an optimum frame should have a specific flexibility that worked in harmony with a individual rider's weight, ballance and pedaling motion.

The thought was that traditional, smaller diameter steel frame tubes were the most promising approach to designing a frame that would "plane".

Others have openly doubted "planing" exists.

I haven't followed the "planing" debate for around a year and I'm probably not up on the latest thinking.

Best,
tcs

Rivendell already mentioned, and off the top of my head, Kogswell and Rawland. I'm sure there are others - plus - the outer diameter of a chubby 650B tire is close to the outer diameter of a 700Cx23, so really many frames that can accomodate the greater width of the 650B can use those wheels when fitted with looong reach caliper brakes.

tcs

Naa- it's only 3 mm, which is slightly less than 1/8 inch, since it's the radius rather than the diameter. 650A will fit just fine.

I'm curious to know what people think of the satin black paint. I like it myself. Chris says somewhere that it's not the color he ordered.

I don't have a strong opinion either way about the paint, but I don't like the orange decals - I'd prefer something more subtle.

Rawland
Haro
Soma
Velo Orange
Several others that I'm forgetting/too busy to remember.

I didn't even realize it was TIG.

Can't tell from the photos or the Geometry info what the status of the top tube is.... Slope or no Slope?

Thats the deal breaker for me...Otherwise I really like this frame, lots of bosses, could accept Clamp-on DT shifters if you wanted... comes with a threaded Fork (boo to threadless) 400 bux aint bad either. Admittedly I'd prefer a lugged frame, but at that price you just won't find it in the new market.

In any case, the point is a lemond cyclocross frame is not even close to having the same features of this... do they come with steel forks? do they have all the braze-ons? I bet the chainstays are only 42 or 42.5cm not 44. What is the difference in BB drop... the lemonds probably have way shorter top tubes etc etc... it's still not even close to being similar to the VO frame.

As a side.... tig is WAY cheeper to produce... I don't have a problem with it... this is a utility bike... I should do a poll on this forum to see how many of us actually live car free.... most of this forums is fussy even when it comes to their workhorses... most true full time utilitarian cyclists are not that fussy, they ride off the shelf bikes from the LBS and this is a bike for them! The problem with it is no one has figured out how to get it too them.. one shop in town tried but then kogswell decided not to sell through shops.. fair enough... in places like portland I'm sure this bike would be huge to the local who isn't into roaming the internet talking about bikes all day but just wants something that works.. this bike works..

Post #4 has a picture of a built up bike, looks level.

Velo Orange has eight dealers in Portland.

I like it quite a bit, personally. Not in the market right now, but I like it.

I don't really get the utility of the 650B wheels. It wouldn't be a deal breaker by any stretch for me. It would be fine. I just think it's a bow to fashion rather than utility. The idea behind the 650B revival was that you could take a 700c frame with short reach brakes, put 650Bs and long-reach brakes on it and put fat tires and fenders on it thereby upping it's utility value. FANTASTIC idea. I just don't see the utility for a NEW frame with this. I can see for smaller frames smaller wheels make sense, but I don't see 650B being big difference from 26".......

I like the satin paint.