just to get an idea of what realistic street pricing is.

Bike 1: Name brand 531 frameset w/ full Campy NR
Frameset: $250
Bars and stem Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $10
RD: $45
FD: $25
Shifters: $20
Crankset: $100
BB: $50
Headset: $85
Pedals w/ clips and straps: $60
Wheelset: $170
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $30
Chain: $20
Seatpost: $75
Seat: $40
Cableset: $30
Brakeset: $125

Bike 2: Name brand SL frameset w/ Campy SR
Frameset:
Bars and stem, Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $10
RD:
FD:
Shifters:
Crankset:
BB:
Headset:
Pedals:
Wheelset:
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $30
Chain: $20
Seatpost:
Seat: $40
Cableset: $30
Brakeset:

Bike 3: Name brand SLX frameset w/ 8s Dura Ace
Frameset: $300
Bars and stem Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $10
RD: $75
FD: $15
Shifters: $50
Crankset: $90
BB: $50
Headset: $75
Pedals: $60
Wheelset: $250
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $50
Chain: $20
Seatpost: $50
Seat: $40
Cableset: $30
Brakeset: $75

bike 4: Name brand mid level frame (Columbus or Reynolds....maybe Tenax or 501 tubing) w/ 600 Ultegra or Campy Athena Chorus
Frameset: $100
Bars and stem, Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $10
RD: 600 Ultegra, Campy $50
FD: Shimano $10
Shifters: $25
Crankset: $45
BB: $25
Headset: $50
Pedals:
Wheelset:
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $30
Chain: $20
Seatpost: $40
Seat: $40
Cableset: $30
Brakeset:

'Name brand' means popular and well known, but not the best of the best that commands a premium and not bottom of the barrel genric whatevers. I'm more or less looking for an average price for each style of frameset and for the components as well. I'll do my best to update each 'Bike' as agreements are made on realistic 'street pricing' for parts. Some parts like bars, stems, tires, tubes, freewheels and chains will have a universal cost for all 4 bikes therefore I've assigned values for each.

If anyone feels my values are off please fell free to give a more realistic estimate.

Peace,

Jim

Are we building to flip, or to have and to hold. Makes a difference. To flip, a pair of tires and tubes = $25. For a keeper bike, same $2 tubes but the tires go up into the $80-$100 range for the pair.

Also, I don't think you're gonna fine a Cinelli bar/stem combo for $40. Not a decent one, anyway.

Frames are all over the map, depending on if you trip over a deal or not. as a reference - NOS Pogliaghi (Basso built) frameset (Pogliaghi proprietary tubing) cost me $300, the Palo Alto (SL) cost me $250, and the Ciocc (Aelle) $150. All three were like new. Blankcrows bagged his SL/SLX Chesini X-UNO frameset for about $330. The Battaglin (SL) came out of a thrift shop as a complete bike, but even then I got nicked for $325. The Mondia (531) - $5. But it was so bad off that it ended up costing $420 to have it repaired and painted.

I also picked up a Tommasini frameset for $170, but it shows a lot of wear.

So - a general guideline in my experience is that a decent frameset that is not a Cinelli or similar will generally cost somewhere between $250 - $350. A decent wheel-set, about the same.

I'm game.

Bike 1: Name brand 531 frameset w/ full Campy NR (Let's call it a Raleigh Pro mk IV
Frameset: $500
Bars and stem Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $10 (or free if you make your own leather wrap)
RD:$45
FD:$25
Crankset:$100
BB:$50
Headset:$85
Pedals: $60 (toe clips and straps extra?)
Wheelset: $170
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $30
Chain: $20
Seatpost:$75
Seat: $70 (Brooks Pro)
Cableset: $30

Bike 3:
Serotta Colorado SLX frameset w/ 8s Dura Ace
Frameset:$450
Bars and stem Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $15
RD:$50 (Mildly clean)
FD:$25
Crankset:$90
BB:$50
Headset:$60
Pedals:$60 (Dura Ace with proprietary clips)
Wheelset: D/A Open Pro ceramic $250 (clean)
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $50
Chain: $20
Seatpost: $50 (Clean D/A Aero)
Seat: $40
Cableset: $30

bike 4:
Titan SLX (Columbus or Reynolds) w/ 600 Ultegra or Campy Athena Chorus
Frameset: $300 (add the fork)
Bars and stem, Cinelli: $50
Bar tape: $10
RD: 600 $40 Campy $50
FD:$25
Crankset:$65
BB:$50
Headset:$50
Pedals:$50 (600 Aeros with clips)
Wheelset: $150. Rigida aeros to 600 tri-colore hubs
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $50
Freewheel/cassette: $40
Chain: $20
Seatpost: $40 600 Aero
Seat: $40
Cableset: $30

+1 on used frame set prices. These are current within the last three years in the United States/Minnesota:

my 1982 Colnago Super $125 needs paint
my 1999 Colnago Master Extra Light $300
my 1991 Merckx Century $300
my wife's 1992 DeRosa Primato $280 in parts trade
my Chris Kvale touring frame (531 of some sort) $275
my Tommasini Sintesi complete bike $400- Dura Ace gruppo/wheelset given to buddy for future consideration- He valued this at $200 and has decided to give me a Daytona hub/Open Pro wheelset he raced three years ago.
my Casati Gold Line S-free for frame after I sold of the commuter bits attached- probably worth $400. Been offered $600.

I won't include any complete bike prices, just framesets. Also won't include prices from Bavaria or Italy.

I'll come back to this later and build one of the frames up w/ legit prices I have paid in the last year. I have to go get my money back at Monopoly. The family is eating me alive tonight.

If you are building these from scratch and try to assemble them from scratch the SR will kill you and the NR and Dura Ace will be painful. I think that bikes with these 3 categories of components (add C-Record to the list) do not make sense to be build from scratch, unless you have a donor bike with these parts already. I'd say street price for a full SR group is close to $1000, an NR close to $750 and 8sp 7402+ Dura Ace close to $500 (and those would be good deals). A 600 Ultegra (tricolor) is easier to assemble and cost efficient somewhat (I'd estimate street price of the group at about $200, which is a steal based on Sante and DA prices, but you can probably do better with donors).

As far as framesets go... (I included BB and headset pricing to the group cost) it varies and as far as 531 is concerned, it varies crazily. And you need to source it well, but you can be lucky (and I am not talking garage sales/clueless sellers on CL). Exhibit 1: watch this auction; this is an SL main tube, SP stays and fork frame set. I'd say that the bottom line for a 531 (gee which variation now) frameset is about $100-$150 and for an SL and SLX about $150-$200. As far as a 'mid level' Columbus and Reynolds frame goes, something with a 501 (or a Raleigh 502) would probably be the least costly. $75 or so.

So... if you do the math, it is not cost efficient to build any of these (even the mid level one with Ultegra) because you can pay less for the whole bike. Whole bikes and whole bike donors where you keep what you need, sell the rest and use the proceeding to fill in the blanks is the way to go. And, of course, staying away from street prices (i.e. relying on thrift stores, garage sales and CL) is the way to go to acquire those.

Actually I am building a bike (user) similar to #4 above right now but with a few differences: -the frame is an Ishiwata 019 and the components are a mix of Dura Ace, tricolor 600, Campy, and I am using non-series SLR brakes (because you cannot beat them for the application). Because it is my bike, I am using $7 tubes, $35 pedal straps, $120 tires (got those half-price because they were discontinued), and a Regal saddle. At last count the total build estimate was $336 and will get up to about $380 or so (because I need cables, and I will use Dura Ace cables, and some incidentals). Yes I did get the frame separately (but in a good deal), but I had a donor bike where about half of the parts came from.

bike 4: Cannondale NOS Criterium frame, pink color, 58cm, dated 1988
Frameset: $112
Bars and stem: Nitto stem, Sakae bars $40
Bar tape: $10
RD: Shimano 600 tricolor $30
FD: Shimano 600 tricolor $25
Crankset: Shimano 600 Biopace tricolor $45
BB: Shimano square taper cup-and-cone, 115mm, $23
Headset: Shimano 600 $24
Pedals: VPS campus $26
Wheelset: Niagara 700C new build $80
Tires, tubes, rimstrips: $75
Freewheel Shimano 6 speed corncob $20
Chain: $20
Seatpost: Kalloy 27.2 $11
Seat: Velo $30
Cableset: Dura Ace stainless Der cables, Pyramid/Jag brake cables and housing (yellow) $30
Shifters: Shimano 600 polished DT 6 speed $27
Bottle holder: Yellow Pyramid $8
Brakes: Shimano 600 tricolor (polished) $32
Brake levers: Shimano 600 tricolor (polished) $26

BTW, this bike is being built as we speak! Comes out to just under $700. Try to buy something new that will ride this nice for that!

Jim,

You missed the shifters in the builds.....

Brakes and levers too.

Is it any wonder many of us start any build with a donor bike? Or buy a complete bike used. Even if you pay full street value, a higher end vintage bike can be a compelling value.

I think Jim's prices are a little conservative, but realistic if you're careful and patient.

Donor biking is becoming the way to go, as bill has already figured out.

A good mid-level frame, in the make/model I prefer, can run $50 (needs work) to $150 (ready)
If I get a great donor bike, I'll buy one for $200 and call it aday, end up at about $350-$400 and feel lucky.

Donor bikes have almost doubled for the components I want on my personal bikes, so I'm scrounging more for groups/parts.

Donor bikes for flip bikes are still pretty cheap. Flip bikes meaning: 1-rolls, 2-shifts, 3-stops.

When I chase parts that I particularly have to have, the price generally doubles.

EDIT: I just ran a couple spreadsheets on two Ironman Masters, one bought as a frame and built up, the other as a frame + donor bike.

The frame-up build was easily double the cost of the frame + donor bike.

To build as a keeper. I guess this is spin off from the Post #54 of the 'How much is too much thread'. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post10271752

I agree 100%


Very true.


Prices in post #1 should be updated.

I actually kept a build sheet on the Palo Alto, so I can dig it up and post it here. As I recall, it was just under $1000, but there were several freebies in there. I'll have to plug in values for those and make it more realistic. Also - I can probably cobble together a pretty close estimate for the Pogliaghi, if interested.

The bikes I ride are all well used, built with 'weathered' components, but some has new parts too. All are Campagnolo based, from 100% to 'mostly Campy'. Tires are mid to upper level.

None of them has passed $1000 in cost, but all are close to a grand. Here's an example without a donor bike:


Frame: 1978 Gazelle Champion Mondial AA-Frame with updated ROTO BB shell and 'chrome under paint' fork ends. Acquired through a friend in the Netherlands, $130 delivered.

1/4 can of Frame Saver: $3

Hubs: 1973 Campagnolo Record high flange, flat skewer, 36 hole, mint condition. The real stuff. Nothing moves me more than high flange hubs. From the Bike Stand, purchased a year ago for $89

Spokes/nipples: Wheelsmith butted and Wheelsmith brass nipples. Hunted the 'net for best price but still had to pay $65 total.

Rims: Mavic Open Pro in silver anodizing $135,

Wheels are expensive! And then add the tires for the full effect. Here I cheaped out and got Performance Bike Special '2 for $20' Michelin. Tubes from the LBS: A steep $12. And finally two rolls of that French Velox rim tape $8

Headset: Velo Orange basic model. Inexpensive, light, reliable and good looking. A modern classic. New $20

Bottom bracket: Token 68 x 111 sealed unit, new $38

Crankset: Campy Centaur square taper 53-39, new BIN on Ebay $40

Pedals: Look old style boat anchors. From a fair and even C&V swap, $10

Derailleurs: Mavic SSC. These are cool. I use to have a set when they first came out in 1982, but I couldn't find those first gen units without the black parts. They are exceedingly rare, but IMO far more reliable. Well, these are good too and I scored a mint set on Ebay with a lowball snipe of $54. They usually go for far more, but it was in the middle of winter on a week day morning.

Freewheel: Shimano HG. Nothing special. Lost track of its origins. Let's say $10

Shifters: Suntour Barcons, NOS. Ebay from France, BIN at $35, and low shipping. Reasonable, actually, since well used sets often fetch this much. Came with cables too! But not the bare steel housings.

Downtube cable stops: Shimano, LBS, $8. A good deal actually, compared to the web.

Chain: Donor bike, $10

Brake Calipers: Campagnolo Script logo Record, the rear with drop bolt (which is almost essential for this frame). Bought them in an East Hollywood parking lot from a pair of shady hipsters for $20, but lacking the barrel adjusters. After lots of patience and vigilance I assembled 2 sets from Ebay for an additional $20, yet I still didn't have the rubber O-rings, so Home Depot took 50 cents of my bike budget for those.

Levers: Campy Victory. To my untrained scrutiny these are similar to Super Record, except for using the more attractive shield logo and having a slightly different hole pattern. Anyway, with supple hoods, a splurge on Ebay for $53

Brake cables and casings: Nobody locally sells blue so I hunted down the cheapest BIN with free shipping I could find on Ebay, $6

Stem: Cinelli 1A. Traded something I forgot to another C&V'er for this classic piece of componentry. Estimated value at $15

Bars: Cinelli in my favorite size and bend. Traded another wider bar to BBM for these. $20

Tape: Tressostar from VO, $7

Seatpost: The only freebie on the bike. A generous gift from Poprad, this Gipiemme post.

Seat bolt: Campagnolo. Don't remember where it came from, but these little deals are dear. Let's say a low $12

Saddle: Ideale 45, Ebay auction $28. Hated it initially. Although clearly a well used saddle, it was and still is bone hard and stiff, but suddenly a few hundred miles ago it turned amazingly comfy.

Bottle holder: Alloy, LBS, $5

So this all ad up to $873.50. A scratched up old bike with some outdated components and a few newer bits, all for close to nine hundred. Figure in all the Ebay and vendor shipping and let just say $1000!!!

Curiosly enough I just got a very nice Mercks Corsa Extra (far more desirable from a collector standpoint than the Gazelle) complete bike with excellent wheels and a mint Chorus 8 speed group for exactly the same price.

Piecing together your dream ride, part by part, will always cost more than picking up a complete bike.