I think they are very nice, I'd gladly pay the price if I needed them.

I paid 10 gold on World Of Warcraft for a Strong Trolls Blood Elixir I needed for a quest, that really is grossly overpaying, though admittedly with imaginary money, but I feel my point is valid.
-Gene-

And I the only one who gets tired of VO threads always getting close to (sometimes making it) being a full on flamewar? Come on guys, live and let live. It's not that big of a deal.

+1 for your whole post, absolutely spot on. I just recently spent about the same amount for a rough looking (right now) TA Cyclotouriste crank with rings than the crank VO is going to sell for new. That is a very reasonable price for the Grand Cru 50.4 cranks with rings, and I would buy a set if I didn't have two originals already. I might end up buying some of the rings at a later point.

I have traits of being a (1) and a (2). When it comes to flippers I am extremely cheap and buy as cheap as I can, but I don't have any trouble paying more for something much nicer (but, still undervalued). But, I am in the second category when it comes to my own bikes. I have no problem spending money on a sought after part, frame, etc. and have no problem paying higher prices if I am going to be the one to enjoy it. The cheap flippers help pay for the nicer stuff for myself.

There have been a number of "cheap" posters completely derailing threads lately on here. Now I see why more and more people are getting sick of this place. At least to me this is the trend I have been seeing more and more on C&V in the last few months. This is just a blanket statement of the overall tone on C&V in general and is not meant to point fingers.

+1, It's hard not to notice. It really sucks, too. Cause I think it's pushed some really valuable (in terms of knowledge) people away from here.
-Gene-

You know I would be willing to bet that the crank isn't really marketed primarily at C&V'ers but rather at those buying/building new bikes with classic styling. Something like bicycle equivalent of the new Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger. I would gladly put on of those cranks on a new custom frame or even on my '88 Panasonic PT-3500 when I refurbish it but I would not use it on one of my Bottecchias simply because it just wouldn't look right with the 'VO' logo. I'm inbetween those two afore mentioned extremes - my C&V bikes are all riders and I want to be able to buy a new part for my vintage to keep it rolling while keeping the NOS gear in storage.

Oh, Tom. Are you guys gonna have this crank available for viewing at NAHBS next week? I'm still gonna try and make it, probably can, but not positive yet. I'd really like to see this in person.
-Gene-

I'm glad this thread got started because I've just recently come across my first set of cranks with this bolt pattern (didn't even realize it until I looked at the cranks in the OPs photo) it's a triple crank and they say "TA Made if France on them".

The chainrings look like they are a mountain version of the Half-Step with a Granny setup, and the granny has a couple of teeth broken off. The main problem with the setup is that they are on an old aluminum Trek mountain bike (the one with the U brake underneath the stays) and the frame is cracked and corroded. I tried to remove anything of value including the crankset, but the crank threads are bigger than my crankpuller and I couldn't get them off. Is it worth buying a new puller with a larger thread (if its even available) to salvage them? Is there a specific size I should look for?

The VAR puller listed here - https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools...ket.html#crank
I'd check eBay first. It's worth it. You can likely make your money back plus some from buying that puller if you decided to sell it (and even more if you sold the puller with it).
-Gene-

The discontinued Park crank puller called CCP-1 was reversible with the TA 23mm on the B- side. These show up on eBay now and then and go cheap. Set up a Saved Search and they'll find one for you.

I like it, very attractive.

I only want to nit-pick a teeny tiny bit... I think the size and boldness of the font for the tooth count looks bad. I know it should be there... just not screaming LOOK 48 TEETH!!

You're forgetting that these are manufactured now at current costs and that the metallurgy is leaps and bounds better. There are lots of people who like to ride a lot and want reliable components. I'm sorry but I broke a vintage TA crank in a year of use, they were garbage and there are many who will flame me for it... Go ahead... the metal was crap, the manufacturing was primitive, they are collectors items... these VO cranks are for people that ride AND have a mind for vintage aesthetics. The price is very reasonable.. in fact it's a bargain.

That is why people go to CR and don't come back to C&V... Some days I understand it... a few years ago I didn't...

CR is only as nice as it's moderators are firm. That's the only real difference apart from it's celebrity membership and maybe it's members are slightly older or mature. I spent a few years on CR and people are the same everywhere. Just give 'em enough rope...

"celebrity membership?" Anyone can join it if they agree to understand and abide by the rules. That "anyone" can be a Dave Moulton (and is) or a Sheldon Brown (and was), or it can be me and redxj for example (and it is). I'll leave it up to y'all to decide which of us is less worthy of membership over there. If Sheldon had not abided by the rules he'd have been tossed, as have many members of lesser cycling fame.

There's only one mod there and something like 1500 members last time I saw someone mention it. Members sometimes take it upon themselves to exercise "vigilante" judgement, but that usually leads to discussions that require the mod to step in. But, with only one mod who also runs a full-time business, it's not easy to manage everything.

Yes, there are rules, but they're very easy to understand and follow. Also anyone who wants to can read them. It's gonna prove helpful if you want to make judgments about CR or its participants.

Probably the main difference with C&V is that "vintage" is a well defined term, and it's assumed that vintage is of value in and of itself. Here it often happens that when someone wants to talk about a certain bike, he'll get flamed by someone who can't understand how, for example, an 853 frame could possibly be of more value than Ishiwata 025 or for that matter, ANY other steel, if one needs a rider. On CR, people interested already have the knowledge base and the desire to experience the best and decide for themselves on it's value.

There may or may not be more willingness to spend $ on old stuff, over on CR. There is definitely a more consistent desire to understand it and ask "how well does it work?" and a more open-minded attitude toward non-Japanese componentry and frames. Another theme there is to understand classics and classic makers in their historical contexts: racing, randonneuring, and the rider/builders who were involved in them. Based on the actual history, this involves history in France, GB, Italy, Germany, Japan, and Spain, as well as some in the United States. Another thing that happens is that vintage freaks from all over the world are in attendance, tending to mitigate our usual US-centric perspective.

Because many of the same people are here, on iBob, on RoadBikeReview, KOG, RBW, the Seattle Randonneurs list, the Randon and rec.bicycle.tech lists, it's really hard to say "well, these fools just like Campy." But if you look across lists at a bigger picture, you see a different perspective.

Maybe BF should have a "Flippers Forum" or/and a "Good Old Value Forum" in addition to a "True Classics" forum. If the Mods here were to make such changes, we'd still probably see 90% of the same names on all those forums.

Or simply leave the pure classics discussions to CR.

We will have a prototype of all the new cranks at NAHBS.

EjustE- I forgot to mention this earlier. I don't look at your critique regarding price as naysaying. It is feedback. It is valuable. My reply is to provide some perspective on why and how we do the things we do. Chris wants to be the good guy and keep prices fair. Not low or cheap but fair. I usually remind him of the other costs associated with getting this stuff made though, so it's always a long discussion of what we will sell it for at a fair price.
Making things from scratch (re-producing a 50 year old crank that has never been seen by 5 manufacturers and forging houses is making from scratch) is a different business than it was long ago with higher costs due to inflation, and more competition due to the international nature of the selling place. eBay, craigslist and an effective webstore wasn't around barely 10 years ago. So much has changed. When making anything, manufacturers need to take all this into account or at least choose to ignore it. Sometimes it's successful, sometimes its not. I can't tell you how many new products I see from major manufacturers that never make it beyond their sales office because of poor costing and pricing assumptions, or a solution in search of a problem. Hopefully our new cranks avoid those pitfalls.

I don't think that anyone has mentioned the increased spacing between the arm and the ring. That's a problem with the old French cranks. There are lots of them out there with gouges on the back of the drive side arm from hitting the front derailer cage. I have one of those myself. You have to use a derailer with a flat outer cage with the old cranks. It shouldn't be a problem with the VO crank.

I've used TA cranks from the mid 1970s to present, doubles, triples, half step with granny, compact, and alpine gearings, on single bikes and tandem, so have some experience to evaluate similar cranksets. The VO blog site says $175 for crankset including rings. For an all-new small-market crankset comprising two chainrings, crankarms, and the two different mounting hardware sets (crankarm to chainring; chainring to chainring), that isn't unreasonable in my view. It can cost quite a bit to assemble a TA crankset with all those components these days. While it's possible to get a used TA crankset for less than that, it's used number one, and for those riding their bikes a few thousand miles a year, that's significant. It can take time and continued vigilance to finally win an eBay auction for a TA crankset where there aren't competing high bids. The VO crankset looks like very good value to me compared to the used TA cranks/rings/bolts I've used over the years, and acquired on eBay in recent years. What catches my eye as significant improvements over TA: all new hardware and no chainring wear starting out; standard thread for crank extractor; pinned chainrings; more derailleur room between outer chainring and crankarm; stainless steel mounting bolts so no alloy bolt head stripping and no issues with dissimilar metals corroding together like TA bolts; thicker and more durable chainrings. Works for me. For a non-vintage bike setup, I would go with VO over TA, no question.

Off the chart with that one. I'll leave it there.

BTW, that's a nice crankset. Thanks Velo Orange for taking a risk making such a nice piece. For a low production, nice part, the price is attractive.


cheapskate/bargain hunter/deal seeker bill

Here we are with "celebrities" again.

Haven't you ever seen any celebrities on BF?

Well, I've been subscribed here for a short time and I've logged 30 posts. So no, I have little insight and knowledge of the glitterati of BF C&V. I could be writing to the Queen of Sheba for all I know.

Sign my autograph book?

I was just saying that the CR isn't the all and end all of forums. I'm reconsidering that because at least they wouldn't waste time on much of this thread. PM me. Over and out...

And the arms are from two different time periods.

Good eye!

It's hard to tell from the very poor photos but I wouldn't be surprised if someone had run some ISO threaded pedals through these at one point as well. So maybe not a 'great deal' after all....

It's all individual perception. I spent a fair bit of time in CR when I got back into cycling and ended up leaving because of what I was perceiving as a very snotty attitude towards vintage bicycle (aka, what I call 'classic car syndrome'). Despite the constant litany of "you can get it cheaper" types here, I've found the C&V crowd a lot friendlier. At least we ride the bikes, and don't spend our evenings gazing at the Masi hanging on the wall while sipping a glass of wine (yes, I remember a CR guy claiming that as his idea of a pleasant evening - he left me with the impression that he'd NEVER ride the bike, it'd get dirty).

As to the "you can get it cheaper" crowd, yeah, they set my teeth on edge. Mainly because I put up with their equivalent every day at work - parts counter at a Honda/Yamaha dealership. No matter what price you quote them, it's too much.

A bit of typecasting? Lots of riders on CR in my acquaintance; I've ridden with lots of them. People come in all shapes and sizes and persuasions and why would CR be different? CR is a source of info and not a roomful of friends. You don't need a stranger to validate your existence so if someone is snotty to you, so what, why would it rock your boat? Enjoy riding your bike...