Im currently in the process of getting a Schwinn Paramount.
Its a p10 Paramount.
Are there any differences other than parts that the p13 has that the p10 doesnt have?
Structurally or in quality?
Im just tired of googling 70's schwinn catalogs.
thanks

Well, my fuzzy understanding is that the p10 is a tourer and the p13 is a race bike. I imagine the p10 will have slightly more relaxed geometry compared to the p13. It probably has eyelets for racks that the race model wouldn't have too.

Jeff,

It really depends on the year. My '66 P-13 basically has the same frame as the P-10. The difference would be the lugs were chromed and some of the components were better. By the 1970s changes in the aggressiveness of the frames were introduced to differentiate the models. What is the serial number on your bike? Even one year's difference in the early '70s makes a difference.

it is a 1973 paramount. serial number H73312
i really hope this isnt a tourer....

All the P10/P15 bikes were classified as tourers by Schwinn but as the good pastor points out, it is really the same frame as the earlier P13.
It's not really a touring bike. More of a sports tourer.

I have a 73 P13 and had a 72 P15 and they were different geometries. Different wheelbases, different curve in the fork. Functionally the biggest difference was the greater tire and fender clearance on the P15. It was set up for 27" wheels with 1-1/4" (32mm) wide tires using Weinmann centerpulls with room for fenders whereas the P13 used 700c wheels using standard reach Campagnolo sidepulls which can still take a decently wide tire by today's standards. The P15 also has eyelets for racks and fenders on front and rear dropouts.

They both ride well. I like the additional functionality of the P15, you can do more things with it.

I have a set of 27 inch campy hub, super champion clinchers that are just screaming for a Paramount P-10 to compliment. Currently they adorn my Raleigh...but I have a set of 700c tubulars that I'd like to put on that at some point. Someday I'll find the Paramount these were born for.

The P13, prior to 1971, used Reynolds 531 fork blades with the standard 45 degree bend, out of the box. They are designed for 27" rims (though early P12s and P13's from the '60s had shorter chainstays and fork blades, and were better suited to 700C's), and fitting 700C's requires loads of brake reach. Top tube braze-ons were fitted to the right side; makes mounting NR brakes a pain - and even with 27" wheels, you need a drop bolt on the back. Forget about NR's with 700C's.

This all-purpose road/touring geometry was handed over to the P15, which was essentially the same as the P13 with a NR triple crankset and a long cage RD. The "old" P13 geometry became the P10, with virtually no changes.

The new P13 introduced in 1971 (or somewhere mid-year) tightened up the chainstay and fork length for 700C's exclusively, and the stock brakeset became the Nuovo Record sidepulls (in the very last years, Weinmann 605's were optional). The top tube braze-ons were deleted in favor of cable clips. The fork rake was also revised to a much more gradual curve, similar to Italian machines of the era - I'm not sure if this was a bend available from Reynolds, or something done in-house.

That said, here's a shot of a '70 P13 (background) and a '72 P13 in the foreground - the fork rakes should be apparent, and are the quickest spotting detail. The P10 and P15 should be identical to the P13 in the background:



-Kurt

The easiest ways to tell a 1973 P13-9 from a P10-9 frame are the way the rear brake cable is routed on the frame's top tube (the P13-9 uses three chrome plated Campy cable clips, while the P10-9 uses two top tube braze-ons), and the P13 doesn't have front fork and rear dropout eyelets for fenders/racks while the P10-9 does.

Just to add to Stan's comments: Only the post-'71 P13's are virtually guaranteed to be eyeletless, unless they are from a special order build. The pre-'71 P13's were generally fitted with eyelets, though some were not; I had a Paramount replacement fork (fork had no serial #) dating from prior to 1967 without eyelets. I also have the fork off of B802, a 1968 fork with a Vagner crown, and that is also sans-eyelets.

-Kurt