I have no direct experience with V-O frame sets, so I can't attest to their goodness or ride quality, but having converted a few 70s and 80s road bikes to 650B, one big advantage I can see with the Polyvalent is that you don't need to make compromises: You can use canti brakes so no need to search for long-reach calipers; since it's built for 650B, you don't have to fiddle or worry about fender line; the long top tube is intended to compensate for the use of upright city bars, plus as others have pointed out, it has loads of brazeons for fenders, racks, etc. I'd guess that a lot of them will be sold as complete bikes built by V-O dealers, rather than as frame sets. You can go to the bike shop and walk away with a complete 650B city bike for about a grand. If you're in the market for such a thing, that seems like a pretty good deal.

Neal

if you can ride a 59 here is a great looking Rivendale. http://go.bikeforums.net/?id=42X1295...t-II%2Fpage237 only $850 in Boston

http://images.craigslist.org/3p23od3...d766ef1cad.jpg

Thanks BG!

I have a buddy that is looking for one of these, so I'll alert him.

Appreciate it.

I saw a Polyvalent in person. I thought the matte black finish looked cheap and unattractive and not unlike a spraypaint job. I thought they looked nice online, but in person, they turned me off.

for the same price (or less) as a VO Rando, you can buy a Bob Jackson frame. The End-to-End and World Tour have all the provisions one would need. And dare I say the quality of the tubing, alignment, and frame build would be higher.

Yep. Long hot days do that to me. :D

It kind of seems to me that the compromise with a VO frame is that you're stuck with 650B. with a 27" or 700C frame you could convert it to 650B and if you get tired of it you can do it up a different way with 700C.

My modern Raleigh One-Way has all the same brazeons as the VO frame. Matter of fact you can get a pretty similar bike to the polyvalent in the new Raleigh Clubman http://media.rei.com/media/cc/6a43fb...41fef3b1eb.jpg
its got pretty much everything the VO frame does except you could (presumably) convert it to 650B or and go back to 700C when you got tired of it.

i've got nothing against velo-orange, i use a lot of their products...i just don't like this frame.

What he said

Get a late 80s/early 90s TIG welded Japanese hybrid and will be the same as the polyvalent for far less $

(on the other hand, I looked at the specs of a complete Surly long hauler -or whatever they call it- the other day, and that thing might worth it at that price point)

I'm really interested in a Bob Jackson...I just need to pull the trigger...

Good points, but weren't you dissing those sloping top tubes?! I have heard of buzz on other lists that the Clubman would make an excellent candidate for a 650B conversion, but there's that sloping top tube again!

Neal

Mmm, Bob Jackson World Tour, 425 GBP + 90 GBP shipping to the US or about $800. V-O Rando Frame is $750 plus whatever domestic shipping would be. Hmm, if I were in the market, BJ would be getting my money.

Neal

As a matter of fact, you agreed that "if it has even a hint of a slope then it's absolutely worthless and horribly ugly".

Why are you comparing a brifter bike with sidepull brakes to the Polyvalent anyway?

Neither one of them appeals to me at all. I'm into vintage bikes and the only thing vintage about either one is the Clubman's name.

At least the Bob Jackson looks vintage.

Really? Canti brakes, designed for 650B, kickstand plate, fender braze-ons, etc?

My point is that while you can convert lots of bikes for lots of purposes, the Polyvalent is well designed for a specific setup/use.

true.
too bad it's ugly as sin in person.

That's subjective. I dig flat black.http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...12799808890001

I came close to ordering one; with the exchange rate relatively favorable it's a good deal. I ended up not doing it partly because I wanted a disc-brake frame. Don't forget the price on the BJ website is VAT inclusive; Americans wouldn't have to pay it.

honestly, if that guitar is your idea how the Polyvalent frame actually looks in person, you're in for a big disappointment. and like I said, it's not just the matte black color -- the quality itself of the work seems quite low, and well, mass-produced with little regard for anything but quantity.

Wow, I didn't expect to get so much debate over this frame! I guess I never really realized that Japanese frames from the 80s-90s would fit modern parts! This is really what I want. A good steel frame that will fit modern parts to make it easier to get replacements. Possibly a touring frame. The low end Miyata from the late 70s I'm riding now could possibly fit that bill. It has braze-ons for fenders and racks. It has fenders (although the front fender has to be straightened out before I can put it back on) with the only problem being that it's high-tensile steel. Makes it a bit heavy. All the components seem to be nicer though. Needs replacement rims as well since it has chromed steel rims. Adds to the weight a bit much.

As I wrote in earlier posts, my LBS has one built up so I've seen it. I'm not going to buy one because I dig wrenching on older bikes, but I think it's a fine bike that fits a specific purpose.

I know, and I still don't like it. But now that the conversation has drifted towards modern (retro-modern?) I figured I should shut up about that and accept that everyone else accepts it ;)

I own a '07 One-Way which is essentially the same frame as the clubman, I bought it when I first got back into cycling again and before I'd developed as strong of a distaste for that top-tube as I have now. I'm not gonna part with the one-way any time soon over that fault though, its my only complaint about an otherwise really good bike.

From the pictures I've seen the Polyvalent has cleaner welds than any of the Raleigh frames i've seen. Of course I've only seen the Poly in pictures and I've seen several of the new Raleighs in person.

YES! like a 210 or a 110.... Miyata's 'low-end' was better than many other brand's mid-range. Even the Miyata 110 and 210 have Cr-Mo main tubes.

I have been seeing where this thread goes, but I have a couple of thoughts.

The VO frames definately target a niche market. Their closest competitors are the likes of Rivendell in terms of their 650B bikes. To argue that you are tageting the same market as Soma/Surly simply becasue the price point is similar and they are both steel is not entirely correct because once you look past the steel frame, they are different bikes (including the paint). With respect to VO's 700C frame, the lines are indeed much more blurred becasue I think you could make the argument that Soma, Surly and other's offerings are indeed quite similar.

That said, it all boils down to marketing. Surly's "thing" is inexpensive, sturdy bikes which are both useful and flexible. They have really defined the market in the US. While I do not think any of their bikes would be one the top 10 list of all times for specific purposes (except the Big Dummy for which there are really on 3-5 in that entire catagory), I belive they provide very good value for the money. Soma, in certain areas, is basically Surly with Pinache'. You get lugs in most cases, and more sporty paint, mayby less flexible in use than Surly, but still quite useful in the end.

VO is selling something else. Where Surly shows hipster/street-smart 20-somethings tooling through urban environs, VO shows their bikes with wine, window boxes of flowers outside old buildings. Surly and Soma plugs alley cats, VO evows randonneering. This difference transistions to suble differences in geometry, brase-on placement and others which frankly most of use would not really notice. They are indeed filling a market where Hearse, Rivendell, and the like are above the budgets of many people.

I also disagree with the assertion that any old 80's Japansese frame provides the same thing as a fraction of the price. Where that may be true for people on this list, it is not true for the majority of people out there wanting a new (to them at least) bike. I cannot even fathom the number of people who have walked into the shop with a bike which would is more than suited for what they use it for, but want a NEW bike. They have all the excuses in the world, but most of the time, they simply want a new bike. If they want to change their drop-bar sport tour Centurion (or equivilent) to tourist bars, fenders, thumb shifters, etc., suddenly they are into the thing a few hundred dollars assuming they want the shop to do the work. You can only sell that may 1 out of 10 times, and yes I have been trying for years.

So. I do not take exception to VO's frames. While Surly, Soma, Raleigh, others offer similar bikes at a similar price, you will be getting different bikes in the end and the choice is nice to have. I might also add that VO is getting more and more local dealers. WE tend to eat the shipping costs in those instances which for a frame is more than insignificant.

No, this isn't even that. I tried to find some info on it a couple years ago and came up with nothing but a drawing of a robot riding one in a Japanese magazine article. It's a Miyata "California Road" and is made out of high tensile steel instead of Cr-Mo. 27" wheels too. Thought about converting it to 700 but not sure I want to put the money/time into it. It rides pretty well just seems a bit heavy. I'm sure alloy wheels would fix that.

Edit: forgot to mention that my father-in-law bought this bike when he was stationed in Japan around '78. As far as I can tell, this was never released to the US. Seems like a lower end frame being high tensile steel but seems to be a conundrum as it has nicer components like Shimano 60 front/600 rear derailer. Brazed lugged construction is nice though. If I'm not mistaken, this is before Miyata started making their own tubing, no?

I'm by no means a total fan of the VO frames, but they do have something few others offer - pretty low trail. The Raleigh might have the braze-ons, but looking at that fork, it can't have the high rake/low trail. The VO frames really are rather specialized.

I think the Mixte is the pick of the litter among the VO frames both for the features it has as well as the difficulty of finding high quality vintage mixtes.

+1 - I confess to owning a tig welded, sloped, briftered and fendered Raliegh. I bought it cuz it was shiney and new and I hadn't bought a new bike in 25+ years, kinda an impulse thing. Anyway, most people think its a restored bike, I even had some from the carbon fiber crowd look it over and ask if its restored or new. So the lesson is most people on two wheels really don't know too much about the evolution of the bicycle.