campy bottom bracket help!
 

hi!
the spindle of the bottom bracket in my gios torino super record is shot. it is campy, either a record or super record, likely the bike's original. do you think i would be better off trying to snag a new spindle on ebay? a whole used bb? a whole new bb? if the latter, would it be worthwhile to get a cartridge bb? given that the cranks are the original super record, would a newer campy bb like veloce work with them? i believe the original was 70-ss 110 mm.
thanks!

I doubt a newer one would work. The NR/SR are asymmetrical, whereas I think the newer Campy are symetrical. Is the spindle all that wore out? Those are pretty tough, but I suppose alot of miles etc. can do that. I'm not sure, but weren't the super record cups aluminum? Cups etc. are fine? I'd probably just snag a NR bottom bracket off ebay.

The truth.

that pretty much answers the questions. thanks. am i stuck waiting for the right dimensions to pop up on ebay? any suggestions on an alternate source?

Bicycle Classics might be helpful, at least for information. There is a difference in spindles pre 1977 to after 1977. They also carry Phil Wood sealed BBs.

http://00eda5d.netsolhost.com/bottom.html

Be careful when selecting Campy bottom brackets. Earlier spindle tapers will not fit later cranks as the taper is different. It seems to me that the switch over was in 1978 but I am probably wrong.

Anyway, there are other concerns. Don't do what I did and try to fit a late model crank onto an early model spindle.

randy, i have older cranks, so that shouldn't be a problem. i am a bit confused though, as I went to an LBS and asked them. they don't have any italian threaded bbs. the guy wrote down what i needed: "68 x 110mm italian threaded 36x24 f" most of the record/sr ones i'm finding online are 70, not 68. i know the second mesasure is the length of the spindle. the first one has to do with the width of the bb shell, correct? i'm not sure of the year of my gois, it's late 70s, early 80s, judging by decal comparisons. did the mechanic make a mistake on the 68?

I believe that's a mistake on the 68. Should be 70.

I believe that 110 mm is also a mistake. NR/SR era cranks used longer spindles.

I don't know about the taper, but the Veloce cartridge BB is 111mm, I think.
An '85 Ofmega bb, often compatible with Campy, hada a 115mm spindle length.

You could also try a Tekon.

My old NR Spindle is 111mm.

Modern Campy Record and Chorus 111mm bb's are asymmetrical. That's pretty close to the OP's 110mm spindle. The Veloce and Centaur are symmetrical, as are all the doubles (I believe).

correct.

"new square taper"
chorus/record double = 102 symmetrical
chorus/record triple = 111 asymmetric

veloce/centaur double = 111 symmetric (perfect for c-record ;) )
veloce/centaur triple = 114.5 asymmetric (i believe)

if these two guys are both correct, the 111mm chorus cartridge BB should work

thanks for all the advice, couple questions.
would modern a chorus/record triple's square taper be compatible with old sr cranks? aaaand any way to not spend over $100 on a bb???

my campagnolo knowledge only goes back to 8spd (am 25 years old)

i do know NIB 111mm symmetric BB are very cheap on ebay right now. ive not had a need to look for the asymmetric version. even if you do spend $100, dont worry about it. my "modern" aluminum/carbon bike and fixed gear both have a chorus 102 cartage bb. they are wonderful parts. actually. the 111mm veloce one in my "vintage" ride feels wonderful too. campagnolo makes an excellent bb.

It is 115.5mm and it depends on your chain line so the Centaur and below triple can use either the the 111 or the 115.5

OP, you could try always try a Token BB but it is a hit and miss with the quality and fit since they never specify asym or sym.
Or you could wait for a Phil BB to pop up for 50 to 90 usually then get cups also (still not under 100 but infinitely more durable).
Or if you don't have a problem with your cups just get a new spindle.
Any other options?

According to the Campy documentation, the modern 115mm bb's are for triple cranks and bikes with oversized (32mm) seat tubes. 111mm bb's are for triples and 28.6mm seat tubes.

i put a triple on a steel bike (28.6) for my girlfriend and we used every bit of the 115mm bb. the frame does have a lot of tire clearance, but i would follow that guideline with caution.

When I put a Veloce Triple on my Cannondale (32mm seat tube) I used the 110.5mm Phil symmetrical BB. When I swapped out the triple for the Veloce Compact Crank, I used the same BB.

It all depends on your bike, but in this instance the OP needs an asymmetrical BB for older SR/NR Cranks.

i fine tuned the chainline on my fixed gear bike by using a 102mm bb with a centaur crank (made for 111mm) the chainline is perfect but there is NO way to run an inside chainring. the crank itself is VERY close to the chainstay.

correct. my bet is a chorus 111mm (asymmetric) does the job perfectly

Interesting. I've built 6 steel bikes so far using the 111 and respective Campy triple crank, and all worked perfectly. A friend and I tried building one with a 115, and we could not get the bike to shift reliably up front, and when it was in the middle ring it had a tendency to self-shift to the small ring when you shifted up to the larger cogs in back.

^ That would be an interesting effect (front ghost shift).

Any comment as to the accuracy of Bicycle Classics info on their site, particularly the Reference Table near the bottom of the page?

http://00eda5d.netsolhost.com/bottom.html

BTW, there are some Italian spindles and BBs on ebay right now. Some early (according to the above table) and some late (post '77).

i know i need an assymetrical bb but i'm not sure what that means exactly. does that mean that the right side spinle is longer to accommodate the larger crank? am i correct in thinking that a pista bb wouldn't work because it isn't made to work with double chainrings?

what do you think about this:
http://www.lickbike.com/productpage....=%270216-13%27

or this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Seale...ts_Accessories

I don't think the taper will be correct on either of those.

What about this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Super...ts_Accessories

or this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Super...ts_Accessories

Dang, you guys are making this confusing! As far I know, there were only 2 spindles for the Record/Nuovo Record/Super Record cranks: the one for the thick cups and one for the thin cups. I'd guess you have the later one.

Many makes copied the Campagnolo design... a Sugino or Avocet spindle of the period should work too. I'd take your old spindle to an old time bike shop and have them match it up to something in the drawer.

What year are the crank arms? OFGs first link appears to be the correct pre-78 spindle (~112mm), while the second link would be correct for a 78 and later crankset. The NR/SR doubles should both be thick cups (at least according to BicycleClassics, link above). If the cups have rifling in the spindle openings, they are thick cups.

Methinks I'd just try a cheaper Veloce double cartridge at 111mm and call it a day. I'd bet it would work.

Thick or thin cups don't matter as long as the spindle matches. I put a triple on my '84 Cinelli by using the earlier thick cups because that's all the triple spindles were ever made for.

Hmmm... BicycleClassics seems to think that all triples were thin cup. One reason I was asking for opinions as to the accuracy of their info, which seems to be the most complete that I have seen. Without trying it, I can't see where thick cups in a thin application would be a problem, unless the drive side winds up too close to the cup? I would also think that the thick cups with the rifling would be desirable in all applications for their water/dirt resistance.

You could be right... let me look at my bike...

Looks like you're right, but I did have to change the cups from what it came with in '84. I thought thick were earlier and thin later? Is it the reverse? Goin senile can't keep these details straight like I could when 23!

BTW, I did buy the spindle from Bicycle Classics but it didn't work until I dug around in my stash and found the right cups... thin.

Just bought another one of those TA triplizer 42 rings from Peter White Bicycles for a '72 Mondia I'm building with SUPER low gears!