The Cross-Check is a possibility, though I'd be more likely to go with Scott's advice and get the lighter frame. Ideally, I'd prefer something older, lugged and less expensive.

Oh, then you gotta scour craigslist. What size? I think you like 54 or 55cm. I'll keep my eyes open.

I scour CL constantly anyway...I'm just not entirely sure what I should be looking for. There seem to be a lot of frames that work in most ways, but not all. I like the idea of resizing an older Volpe or Miyata 1000. I need to look into the the Trek 520s. I also like the idea of a Miyata cross...maybe the triple cross.

The tricky part seems to be finding a horizontal top tube bike with half fork braze ons and the right fender/tire clearance (essentially mtn sizing). The MTBs don't work because almost all of them have vertical drops and/or won;t take 700cs.

You're right. And the 135 spacing makes it tough. I think if you drop one or two requirements, it will be much easier. Maybe there's a reason it's not common.

If you go with a late 80's or early 90's Miyata 1000 it is 130mm spacing. Spreading it 5mm isn't a big deal. Cycle-Maven is correct about the early 80's 1000's being 126mm but by '88 and on they were 130mm. I've got a totally stock 89' and its 130mm, I promise.

That might be exactly what I'm looking for. My only reservation was my bad experience with a previous 1000...they're not really designed for my purpose (commuter).

One thought I've had is a VO Polyvent and switching ther rims to 650b. It would be a costly/major excersize, but the end result would be pretty awesome.

Thats a valid concern. Its a bit on the sluggish side for a commuter.

wanna buy my '08 Raleigh One-Way frame? Its versatile as heck, actually meets all of your requirements...it might fit 42's.... but I don't remember the spacing.

I'm in the middle of a similar build actually. I'm using an Austro Daimler Inter 10, gonna do a 7speed IGH commuter with a coaster brake. I'm only gonna be running 30mm tires though

I thought the Polyvalent Build Kit came with 650's?
of course if you're going the 650B route that opens up some option for other vintage frames that would otherwise not take as wide a tire as you wanted.

What size is your Raleigh one way? That would be VERY possible if it fits my reqs.

I might have misread the Polyvent info...I was looking at the frame only...not the build kit. My understanding is that it was designed for 650b...if that will fit 700cs, I might have my answer right there.

I truthfully don't know ANYTHING about 650bs...I know it's an older style and was used in rough urban areas. Do 700cs fit with bikes that are 650b sized?

This requirement doesn't make sense to me. There is a truly impressive selection of tires available in 26 x 1.5; and the same goes for rims (including, for example Salsa Delgados). Do you expect to get some advantage from 700c that 26" won't give you?

Cold setting a frame from 126 to 135 shouldn't be a problem, since you're talking about a steel frame anyway. Don't do it with aluminum or carbon fiber, of course. Dropout alignment may be indicated; but again, shouldn't be a problem. Having a professional do it should be way cheaper than having Bilenky build the whole frame for you.

RHM...I'm sorry...maybe I should have been more specific with what's happening. If I were building up from scratch I probably would use 26 inch rims. I totally agree. I already have the wheels I want to use...and they're 29rs (700c). I'd prefer to use what I have rather than buying new rims and having to rebuild them.

Here is another idea: start with a touring frame like Trek 720 or Miyata 1000. These should have enough clearance as they were designed for 27" tires. Have a framebuilder replace the seatstay bridge while respacing to 135. Should cost less than $200, though you'll have to repaint the affected area.

This is definitely a good idea...and something I'm considering. The only negative is...I've ridden Miyata 1000s naked before and haven't liked them. I have no experience with the Trek 720. The more I'm thinking about it...the more the Polyvent with a rim change is a really good idea...it's probably either that or a custom. The Vassago is also definitely a possibility.

The Trek 720 gave a luscious ride. Consider it. But then, finding it could be hard.

I could swap rims with you. I probably have more 26" than I want, and I can always use more 700c. I can do the builds for you, if you need. I'm pretty quick at it, and the results are very good. I'm still riding some wheels I built in the early 80's.

Oh, yeah, I know how that goes. But I thought, a few posts back, you were considering 650b? Anyway, I'm afraid you have to put the costs in perspective. A pair of rims is going to be easier, faster, and much cheaper than a custom frame, or even a customized frame. You can doubtless sell your 700c delgado's on CL or ebay, and build smaller wheels, faster and cheaper than getting cantilever studs brazed onto an existing frame.

As for customizing a frame, don't do it unless you've already tried the exact geometry &c you're going to end up with, lest you find yourself heavily invested in a unique frame that doesn't suit your needs as well as you'd hoped, and that no one else will want either. And since you seem to be one of these guys who likes to experiment with changing this and adjusting that almost ad infinitum --in short, someone like me-- I don't think any kind of custom or customized frame is a good idea.

Have you already built the rear wheel? What's the hub?

As for the Trek 720, be sure you're correctly distinguishing between the early 80's 531 tourer and the early 90's hybrid. They were totally different bikes. The former had horizontal drops; I know nothing about the latter. The former is considered by some to be a top-notch tourer along with the Miyata 1000; others find it inferior to the Miyata. Now I don't know anything about the Miyata, but chances are good that if you didn't like the Miyata 1000 you will be equally unimpressed by the Trek 720 tourer. And anyway, the 720 tourer does not have such generous tire clearance as you'd think. I have 37's on mine, and it's a very tight fit.

Tom...this very might well be the solution. Let me think and get back to you. Something about a 650b Polyvent build is REALLY appealing.

RHM...I was considering the 650b...if you want consistency, I'm going to disappoint you

Great post and a lot to think about. You've made some excellent points and you're right...I'm one of those never happy, it could always be more perfect, guys. I fear you're right about the Fuji 720 and touring bikes in general. I think what I really want is a sports tourer that can take HUGE tires. I keep thinking there has to be a Bridgestone set up like this...or the Miyata triple cross.

Another option is to leave it alone and settle.

The rear hub is a Sram 9 speed IGH. I think the iMotion or some name like that.

I'm offering to trade my 26" mtb rims, not 650b, in case that isn't clear. I don't own any 650b's.

Also, I do city riding on lightweight wheels. You might be able to, also. I used to commute on tubulars! That was when NYC potholes would win awards.

And rhm is right about custom frames. They're really not worth it.

As far as I know, only a very modern cyclocross frame would satisfy all your parameters, but I think you have too many parameters.

The problem with modern cross frames is they don't have the front fork braze ons and most are vertical drops...and you're right, I'm looking for something VERY particular. I think the Vassago is AWFULLY close...the only thing it lacks is the front braze ons. I could just do without the front rack, or use the Paul rack that doesn't require those braze ons.

I understand that we're talking 26s. I'm still a little unclear on exactly what a 650b is...I know it;s smaller and fatter...and the French likes them for bombed out post ww2 roads. What I'm not clear on is if they fit frames designed for 26', 700c, 27' or any number of those.

Aaron, I think my One Way is a 56... if not its a 58. Its stock setup is with fenders and 700x 35's so it may take 42's but i'm not sure about 42's with fenders. Other than that its pretty close to what you want. Horizontal dropouts (rear facing), Canti Brakes, Rack bosses midway up the front fork and on the seatstays as well. I don't know the rear spacing though.

I can take measurements of stuff on it later on tonight if you want.

It's too big.

On the plus side, you have given me something else to check out!

From smallest circumference to largest: 26 (MTB), 650B, 700C, 27". Lots of people do 650B conversions using 700c or 27" frames. In short, 650B wheels shouldn't be attempted in a frame designed for 26" (MTB) wheels. Lots of cool examples are out there for 700c/27" frames that now feature 650Bs. Some of Nlerner's posts come to mind.

Colonel...would a frame designed for 650b (the Polyvent) take 700c?

How about a RIvendell Atlantis?

Aaron, I have a GT Tequesta Steel MTB (Triple Triangle) that has horizontal dropouts. Basically is is the same frame as the DB. I think it is an 18, Solves the IGH, but Tom would still have to build your wheels.