This might not be the best place to ask...since the answer is likely to be modern...but here's what I want in a frame:

1. Horizontal Drop Outs
2. The rear hub has 135mm mtn spacing, so I probably need at least 130mm...preferably larger.
3. Horizontal top tube...prefer, not required
4. lugs...prefer, not required
5. can fit at least 42cm tires with fenders, 700c
6. set up for v brakes or cantis

If anyone has any suggestions, kindly let me know. I can only think of a Surly Cross Check and would prefer going in a different direction.

a x42? knobby? i of course immediatly thought of a an older Bianchi Volpe or Randonneurer but the Rando has vert drops and I am not sure if a Volpe can take a x42 tire. then again both are not easy to come by.

aside from the tire size most any older touring bike would fit the bill, but you need to experiment on tire size. it would be pricy and the BB likely a bit high but an older steel cross bike may work

The problem with touring bikes seems to be the rear spacing issue....the older ones with vertical drops are usually 126 and the 130s often have horizontal. I'd also like to use 42 knobbies, if not larger, for winter riding.

Can a 126 rear be safely respaced to 135? That seems extreme.

There has got to be a MTB or hybrid with horizontals that would work...maybe one of the Bridgestones? Does anything VO does fit this criteria?

Surly Cross Check? Don't let your Karate Monkey be an indicator. I love my Cross Check.

This may be up your alley. You can literally take all the parts off of your KM. Seems like it would make a great winter bike. Run it disc or canti and room for a 45 mm tire.

https://www.vassagocycles.com/fisticuff/

why does it have to have horizontal drops? there are lots of (well not lugged) early '90s hybrids that I am sure will fit x42. if you can find one the Bianchi Project bikes came with x45s and most were lugged

Nice suggestion, nikkorod... I like that bike. Any idea what/who's handle bars are on that bike?

KAS, Except for the 700C and perhaps a lugged frame why not a mountain bike? Cold setting 126 mm to 135 mm would probably require drop out realignment... opinions?

Brad

BG, Is that the same frame as the Volpe?

It has to have horizontal drops because I'm running it IGH.

Scott...you are the man! That looks like a definite candidate...and quite similar to the Cross-Check but maybe a little more dovetailed to what I want to do with it.

The one problem I see is no fork braze ons...which I forgot to mention as a requirement. Maybe I could switch it out with an LHT fork. The Cross-Check has the same issue.

In a perfect world there's some goofy old MTB or Touring bike someone is aware of that would work.

The 700c requirement is a hard requirement...since the wheels I want to use are 29rs (Salsa Delgados).

Bridgestone XO?

...I know you've already got the Koga-Miyata but an early 90's Miyata 1000 might fit the bill...although I don't know if it'll fit 42's.

Whats the tire you've got in mind that's a 42?

does this have a horizontal dropout or a track style drop with a hanger? https://www.vassagocycles.com/fisticuff/

IC an IGH. I did mine on vert drop bike but used a old dura ace RD for tensioner. could you use an ecentric BB?

Brad, no it is not, I'll double check the geomentry but while the Volpes were built as 'do all' bike the Projects were purebred mountain bikes. mine is just set up for commuting right now. (in some ways are were the fore runners of the whole '29er craze)

My only concern would be weight. My Vassago uses their R-tech 4130 which I think is lighter. I weighed when it got built and without the Brooks Flyer it was 26 pounds. Here is a pic. I cheaped out on the wheels. Probabaly would be lighter with a betyer type. Still kicks ass though.

Track style dropout

is it were not for the red paint this looks like something from WW2. those huge tires give it a brutish look

This is really a job for Bilenky, I just don't want to spend that kind of cash.

A 1000 might work...and I was thinking of one...did any of them have 130mm spacing and horizontal drops?

The XO was another thought....but I have no idea how those came.

I'd prefer not using a tensioner.

It is a singetrack eating monster

OMG I need to try riding this.

The 1000's have horizontal drops, but are spaced at 126. But, it's really easy to cold-set an older touring frame to 135- I've done it twice, and the second one has 10000 miles and counting after that. It's a 1984 Univega Gran Turismo, which is the same as a 1984 Miyata 610- it fits 35 mm tires with fenders, so it should be able to do 42's without fenders. But... I did switch to 700c wheels, which allowed 8 mm more in tire size than the original 27" wheels.

Back in the day we converted alot of Miyata hybrid/cross bikes to drop bars. Frame geometry for their cross bikes is slightly more agressive than their touring series.

Ridley makes a cross frame that may work. Bring your wallet.

If you can re-space, a Trek 520 would be pretty darn close. I believe a BF member is running one like that right now.

j.hughes?

A 520 would be perfect in terms of cost and availability! I'm thinking I might just save some dollarsa and go for a bBilenky.

I have a 520 I'm not using.

Why don't you tell us what you want to do with this frame?

Hi Tom...I want to switch frames with the Surly Karate Monkey...

I want to build it up with 29r wheels (Salsa Delgados) laced to a 9sp Sram IGH and a Sram generator hub. In an ideal world, I'd switch to drops, but I don't think that's possible with the IGH...so I'm planning on using mustache bars, paul levers, and cantis. I'd like to use front and rear fenders, a chain guard and a front and rear rack.

I'll post photos of the Karate Monkey set up tonight. The problem with the Karate Monkey boils down to it can't take fenders, a front rack is problematic and expensive, the rear rack set up isn't ideal and I HATE the ride. It's also ridiculously heavy, although with the wheels I'm using, it would never be a light bike.

OK, got it. I still think a Cross Check would be wonderful.