531 or Tange 2? I'm probably opening a can of worms but, how do they stack up?

Which 531?

If you're talking about tubing, I like Tange 2, almost as light as Tange 1.
Then again, I know pretty much zilch about 531. Some of my friends like it.

I've not seen Tange 2 frames in aggressive geometry, so I can't really evaluate them, but the frame in 58cm is only 2 ounces heavier than the Tange 1. Often, the fork is different.

The decal only says 531. It's a 86-87 Trek 400. I know it is not the 531CS tubing (that's my 84 610). I'm thinking about diversifying my stable with the Centurian for trade on the ISO/Trade thread. I was just wondering how they stack up.

Having both, I'll say that the '88/89 Nishiki with Tange 2, 700X23 clinchers, and Shimano 105 everything is as light as my tubular/Campy Record/NR equipped Raleigh pro. Well, maybe 1/2 lb heavier. Spending time on both, I somehow like the Raleigh better, though for no quantifiable reason. The 'Shiki though is a sweet, sweet ride, even though it is considered to be middle-range when it came out.

I have an '82 Trek 614 in '531, and an '83 Nishiki Int'l in Tange 2:
Same frame size, same brakes, same DRs, same handlebars, and same Avocet saddles.

I can't tell the difference.

Read the specs carefully on that Trek. Only the MAIN TUBES are 531 on the 400 series bikes. Your 614 was not all 531 either. Stays and fork are Ishiwata. The 710 series was 100% Reynolds 531. All steel Trek road bikes are pretty desirable.

I don't have any Tange 2 or 531s in the keeper fleet right now.

I think it really shouldn't make a difference, given two sets with the same wall thickness.

I like the 531 decal better than the Tange 2.

As much as I hate to admit it (snobbery alert!), if I close my eyes on a full Tange 2 machine or a full 531C machine, there is little difference. Granted, most Tange 2 frames have that sterile Japanese feel to the frame, and most 531C frames don't - but I'd put that down to build and geometry before I would blame it on the tubing.

<snob> That said, I prefer 531 decals. </snob>

-Kurt

I love my tange #1 frame, so i guess it boils down to snobbery and geometry.

I guess it's a matter what side of the bed I get out from.

One of my frames is Tange 2. Sport touring geometry and 27"x1" wheelset. It rides predictable and stable. I don't have a 531 to directly compare but did build my brother's racing Triumph (Raleigh rebadge) for him. All 531 brazed in England. I thought his bike road very lively.
I couldn't keep up with him, but I don't think it was my bike's shortcoming.

IIRC, Tange 2 was more better compared to Columbus SP.

is it Tange as in "TANG" ? or Tange as in "Orange" ? 531 I dont have a problem with LOL ! --- all joking aside ,IMO they both have there own charicturistics (did I spell that right ? Prob not) and if it "ride,s" good it IS good !

From Sheldon Brown " The thing to remember is that the high-end Tange tubesets were high-quality CrMo steel which were on a par with high-end Columbus SL/SP (CrMo) and Reynolds 531 (manganese-molybdenum) tubesets." Tange 1 & 2 are great frame materials. Where does Tange Prestige stack up?

Actually, it's tahN-ghey. Of course that sounds pretentious, like "Deer-tay" but it is the proper pronunciation of the Japanese.

It's fun to be pretentious sometimes. There are some really great frames made of Tange No. 2.

I don't know if it's fun to be pretentious, but it's fun riding pretentious and snobby bikes!

I stand corrected ,TY .

I could go for some Tang.... What I've gathered from this thread is, ride the bike, if you like it, get it. AND there isn't TOO much difference between the tubing. Right?

...that we all have too much time on our hands. Shut up and go ride.

-Kurt

Yeah.... that too

Tange Prestige is heat treated for more strength after lightening further.
Like 753.

Just compared my 93 Giant in Tange Prestige and a full 531 Holdsworth. The 531 feels about the same weight when lifting the bike but feels 'lighter' and more lively when ridden. It's a totally subjective thing though, they are both great bikes. Tange 1 and Tange 2 are definitely heavier.

i'd agree with everything kurt said. since tange 2 tubing is slightly thicker than tange 1, it was usually used for bikes designed for heavier loads, such as touring bikes. that's why you won't find any really aggressive geometry bikes using tange 2. my shogun 2000 touring bike has tange 2 seamless tubing, and it is only slightly heavier than my raleigh comp GS... and that might even be due to heavier components. i never compared the weight of the bare frames.

i also have a trek 560 with trutemper RC1 DB chromoly frame, and it feels just as lively and snappy as the raleigh comp GS... and it weighs exactly the same. but it may have nothing to do with the tubing itself but with the frame construction, lugs, etc... the trek has investment cast lugs while the raleigh has traditional hand-cut lugs.

They stack up about the same. My Centurion has 'Tange 2' and it rides and feels just as lively as my 'Columbus SL' Tommasini. They also weigh about the same. My son has an old Trek 560 with Reynolds 531 and it rides just as well also. All three of the tubes I just mentioned are some of the best of steel, so you cant go wrong.