Always a little difficult given different sizes and tires. However, the Team Miyata is the stiffest steel bike I have ever ridden. The Centurion feels more like other higher end road bikes.

Found it! I picked up a Dave Scott Ironman Expert today off CL. When it was listed over a week ago all it said was "Centurion road bike" with no pictures. When the guy called me back today and said he still had it, I asked what the components were and he said "105" then told me it had a guys name on it.
Tange #1 tubing, Shimano 105 components all around, and a funky gold rimmed wheelset. I can't wait to pull it out in the sunlight tomorrow and get a better look at everything before riding it this weekend.

Congrats! I keep looking around hoping to find one.

What size

Your bike is too big. And too expensive for my woeful budget.

That is likely why I don't already have one.

worth it. I paid $350 for mine and it was worth EVERy penny. Did the Mavic Kyserium thing along with 8-speed 600 STI brifters. It's one fast mama-jamma. I'm currently throwing some aero bars on it and then it's bye bye i'm good, i'm gone.

I picked up an Expert too this week, all 105, 6 speed indexed. Looking at it in more detail last night, the rear wheel needs serious work so I have a set of GP4 wheels with Dura-Ace 8 speed hubs that I am considering swapping in. If I can find a Uniglide compatible cassette is this a good idea? Can I make the 105 RD and shifters work or does more need to be done? I'm new to drive changes.

Best bet it to look for an Expert, same frame geometry, just 105 components.

The 105 RD should be fine and to get it to work with the DT shifters youll have to run them in friction mode, then save up for some 8 spd brifters

How do you make them run in friction?

I just had to figure this out myself, there is a little screw on the outside of the right hand shifter that you can turn, adjusting an arrow to friction mode.

I finally got my Prestige up and running just before I broke my femur. The Prestige is a fast, knife fighter, it feels closer to my Pinerello Trevisio than to my Ironman I have named Big Red. The Prestige tube set definitely feels more lively than Tange 1 and the frame set feels lighter than I recalled my Ironman feeling though I never actually weighed either, but my completed Prestige is sitting at 20.5 pounds with the vintage 105, Mavic Open wheels and Mavic vintage hubs.





Love this bike, the rear triangle is tight and the front end feels quicker than the Ironman as well.

You can clearly see in the photo how much closer the rear tire is to the seat tube, resulting in a much twitchier ride. I would love to test drive that beauty!!

So I have a BLACK Dave Scott on an auction site right now, and I just found through these threads that it's "special". I was wondering if anyone has really confirmed the claim that the Black version is more aggressive. I should do some measurements, but I'm in Brooklyn and the bike is sitting in long island right now. X( I was going to transfer the parts over to a Trek 400 frame that is my size, but it just doesnt feel right to separate those parts from that frame.

But I must say, the bike really does have a unique feeling to it. Wish it was my size! I even found a seller that has a somewhat-matching wolber front wheel. :/ Anyone have a 50-52cm to trade??

Thought I would contribute and give the dimensions of a black 23" expert:

St23(c-c is 24)-tt23-dt25.5-ht3.5-ss21.5-cs16.5.*

Anyone have dimensions of same size but in different color? Maybe we can get to the bottom of this.

hynbae's black Ironman is a 1989, and was rumoured to have the twitchier geometry.
There is absolutely no printed data I could find to support that, other than an article that said Centurion said...etc.
The opinions of two others who own both a black model and another model, unsolicited, are all there exists of any mention...

...Besides my opinion, having owned both a 1989 Master and a 1989 Expert at the same time.
The Master, with 2x10 105 and Alex ACE 19 wheels (with the 10-sp only Formula/Zipp/DA hubs) was the smoothest bike I've ever done a century on. The Expert, with 2x9 105 and Sora shifters, Veulta wheelset, was the lightest and twitchiest Ironman I've ever been on, and certainly felt more skittish than the Master. It didn't come with a fork, so I used CF. I'd not have taken it on a century; too skittish.

CardiacKid's is also a 1989, but I'm not sure if it's the blue smoked model or the all-black model. His comparison to his RB-2 has validity, since he owns each one. I've ridden an RB-1, but not enough to make a comparison. I can't say I preferred it to an '89 Master, but it was a very very limited ride.

Properly set up, an undamaged Ironman frame is an excellent all-around machine. Comparisons should be made with identical wheelsets and with approximately equal components, and the same fit. Just as with any other bike. There were several Centurion models that could be considered a bit more agressive than the Ironman. The Prestige, which I've only seen in 1985 mode and the blue 1989 beauty on this thread, was a lighter, almost "petite" feeling frame that you could really, really hammer on. The 1986 Facet was aluminum, hard-edged, and I felt better suited to going fast than comfort. The 1988 Ironman Carbon was lighter, of course, and not as stiff, but probably more able to do a fast 100-miles due to it's comfort level/geometry combination. The 1985 Equipe Centurion is a whole different animal, being pretty much a re-badged Cinelli.

In my experience only:
1981 Semi Pro - touring, centuries, brevets and any other group ride where you want to out-Rivendell the yups and aren't being hectic.
1983 Turbo, 1984 Turbo - same as above, no eyelets, Rivendellers won't notice it, and you can ride in the hectic pace line.
1984 Comp TA - same as the Turbo, in my experience.
1984 Lemans RS - same as the Semi-Pro, but heavier and not quite as smooth. A great workhorse bike. No bling on it.
1985 Ironman - Same as the Comp TA, but with a slightly lighter frame. I couldn't tell the difference.
1986 Ironman - Smooth, light, balanced, seemed to combine the best of the Turbo and the Comp TA/85 Ironman.
1986 Facet - Light, balanced, stiff, only a CF fork away from being a great racer, hard on the butt.
1987 Ironman Expert - One of the best values in bikes I've seen. I've seen and ridden them in road and TT/Tri mode, very very capable.
1988 Expert/Master - No different than the 1987, but if you're buying used, the Master has the tricolor. Lighter wheels, or seemed so.
1988 Ironman Carbon - Light, fast, quick geometry. Not your BB30 stiffness, if that's what you expect. Long-distance? Great.
1989 Expert - the blue/smoke seemed exactly the same as the 88's, the black seemed twitchier. Could be my imagination or the setup.
1989 Master - best all-around bike I've ever had, but truly, any of the 87-89 frames, set up the same, should be the same.

1985 Equipe Centurion - just not part of that genre, in my view. It's a Cinelli, indistinguishable from my SC as far as ride.
If I had to do 100 miles in a pace line that was pushing it but not killing it, I'd take an 87-89 Master with my setup. Within a couple of hours, I'd be ready to go again.
If I had to do 100 miles in a fast pace line or was pushing for time, solo, I'd take the Equipe. I'd suffer more, not sure if I'd be faster, but likely so, as it's a race bike. My butt would hurt for a couple of days.

It sounds a bit like the renewal poster is looking for information to either enforce a value, or simply be accurate. Without knowing the setup, especially the drivetrain including tires/wheels, it's hard to say. Higher end components tend to bring out the better qualites in a good frameset, but the setup is very important. I've seen an Ironman ride totally different with Mavic Ksyrium Elites vs. Bontrager Race vs. DA/Aeroheads vs. 600/Araya OEM's.

i have the movie poster !

Mine is black but I don't have anything to compare it to. I have never ridden another model DSI. I never found it particularly twitchy. The RB2 is noticeably stiffer.

Ahhh Demming! These methods rely on statistical models and methods to identify problems quickly and feedback through the mfg process so that quality issues are found and corrected before the item reaches the end of the line. All work well and good when you are making 50-500 or more frames per week on a line involving many people doing different parts of the operation. Two guys with torches making 5 frames a week - not so much.

Thanks for the Summary. I'm definitely new to these bikes and cycling in general, but your excellently detailed descriptions allow for vicarious experience.

I guess the dimensions are not the only factors involved in the black legend, but it would be interesting to see if there is a difference.

In any case, if anyone has a smaller size (~50cm) they are willing to part with in the NY/NJ area, I would love to trade! These bikes are quite intriguing, enough to hear it from the wife for having another bike.