rothenfield1

This post is getting me all sentimental, kinda like Charlie Browns Christmas and Dickens Christmas Carol all rolled into one.

Sixty Fiver

Damn... it looks like we are all stumped here.

Summing up... it is #137 of something and this is the only identifier on the frame.

Parts put it at '60 - '63 but it could be a much older frame that did not get built up until the early 60's or it is a newer frame that got built up with older parts.

Seat post size indicates that it is Reynold's or Columbus tubing.

The immense wheel clearance suggests that perhaps this bike was designed to roll on 27 inch wheels and the front and rear eyelets point to it being a sporting class frame and not a full on racing frame. If this is the case then it really points to this bike as being British in origin.

The gearing is some kind of steep with that Stronglight's high gears and a narrow Regina block... and England is pretty flat.

It comes with English spares.

It's previous owner was really tall... the Ambrosio stem may be a replacement to increase the reach.

The workmanship is middle of the road... there are a lot of file marks on this frame and this would not be the case if a more experienced builder had done the brazing. Hell... I would not leave this many file marks on a frame and I am just a newb when it comes to building frames.

The headbadge is missing... the rivet holes are horizontal and widely spaced which rules out anyone that used a head badge with vertical rivets.

Sixty Fiver

Will be removing the cranks and seeing what kind of threading I am dealing with... although a Motobecane head badge would fit the parts spec is a little on the high side for that marque but if I find a Swiss threaded bb then a Motobecane head badge would probably fit.

gaucho777 

What a great score. Love the look of that rear tubular. What kind is it? Is that a matching spare under the saddle?

ftwelder

awesome find.

javal

Most certainly french bike with that kind of top tube cable...as the Mbecane head badge suggests.

Im Fixed

I look at that frame I see I Inglish and french Super Course ... PX10ish 531 steel Any whooo nice catch

kroozer 

Paramount?

dbakl

Wow, no clue. Nice bike thought. Headset looks English/Italian style.

unworthy1

My guess: it's British, it's 531 and from the '60s...and that's all I got. With a number like 137 it's likely a small-output builder, of which there were hundreds in the UK. Nothing here is a strong clue to any common model from any of the big names. One last guess: since the chrome was left rough on the main tubes, it was probably painted with transparent lacquer at least partially...what the Brits called a "flam" (for flamboyant) paint job.

retyred

Very interesting thread. Do we know if a Motobecane headbadge fits? I'm waiting for the verdict on BB threading.

Sixty Fiver

I don't have a Motobecane headbadge to measure things... and MB used different cable guides from what I have seen.

It is a mix of design elements and more than a few people have also thought it may have come from a smaller British builder... it does have that look and feel to it.

Am really hoping the folks who dropped it off contact me (have sent out a few inquiries) and maybe they can tell me some stories about this bike.

I hang with a bunch of the older riders and collectors here and some of them have long memories... they would remember anyone who rode / raced a bike like this as full chrome frames are a bit of a rarity.

The Nervex / 531 combination is really common so offers no clue.

Even if we never know who made it, it is a lovely bike and it will be looking at getting a full frame restoration and all the parts seem to be sound and serviceable.

cudak888 

Let us know when you have an ID on the BB.

-Kurt

archashwell

How about a Carlton?


And I would entertain the possibility that the frame was not intended to be all-chrome, but was largely painted originally, but stripped by a chrome idolater later. The inside-underside of steerer, or inside of head tube, might tell that story.

stronglight

Any stampings beneath the bottom bracket shell?

If the seat tube diameter is noticeably larger than 28.0 mm. we can rule out ALL French bikes.

Campagnolo #1010 dropouts were really very rarely found on any older French bikes until the 1970s. Of course, we really don't know the true age of the frameset. Those nice top-end early Campagnolo components could have been take-off spares which a previous owner had saved from an earlier bike.

The coarse filing suggests that this bike was originally enameled and then later chrome plated.

I would REALLY love to see a clearer photo of that Stronglight crankset... Appears to be a model 49D with the style of chainrings used during the late 1950s to early 60s - chainrings are similar to the web pattern of the model 57 cranks.

It was not at all unusual to see Stronglight headsets fitted any nationality of bike... but did anyone notice that a spare "upper" headset cup had been mounted on the bottom of the head tube...

Is that the remnants of a braze-on pump peg I see beneath the rear of the top tube? I've seen some which were simple "pins" and others which had a "U" shape opening. The latter was used for holding a more fancy pump head - like you'd find used on better racing bikes. Presence of these pins really did not indicate lower quality bikes.

The "tire savers" are pretty neat. They look like old Pelissier models which incorporated a sort of spring mechanism at their center to keep the sweeper gently skimming the surface of a tire.

Sixty Fiver

"I would REALLY love to see a clearer photo of that Stronglight crankset"

stronglight

Thanks for the crankset photo!

Here is a page scanned form a 1958 catalog by another vintage bike enthusuast (Robert S Broderick) from his original. I believe the secondary reinforcing ring seen on your crank was a very slightly later evolution (...perhaps just adding somewhere to sneak in a stamping of the Stronglight logo?).



Also, here are a couple of other shots showing what I would guess may be the "Tire Savers" or "Thorn Catchers" on your bike. The first was captured from an old eBay auction. The second was scanned from my copy of a 1963 Ron Kitching (British) cycle goods catalog. In mint condition these fetch some surprising prices today. They were French made but commonly distributed worldwide and they were among a wide range of different bike components and accessories marketed under the once famous name Charles Pelissier (1903-1959), a French racer (he won 16 stages of the Tour de France during the 1920s-30s).